MAI taking the micky

You'll be owing me a pint soon then Pat????????

 

It's looking that way:bang:

 

he he he he he he he he he he he he he

 

You've had a day's reprieve, Pat, as I can't find the lead for my scanner.

Soon, though.....

 

To the chat forum crew (keyboard combatants) I write in response to all the nonsense that’s been written regarding a report in a recent issue of martial arts illustrated. I could spin it out however I don’t want to bore the pants off everyone and beside I do have a life out side the martial arts.
So I will get straight to the point.
1. Asaf Muhktar beat Pat O’Malley at a padded stick-fighting tournament, as fair as everyone present including pat himself, it was by all accounts a fair sporting contest. The rest im afraid is pure conjecture. (We have it on video)
2. Pat has occasionally trained at my black belt academy were on all occasions he’s been both polite and sporting, why he’s taken a different approach to the situation this time around, I cant really say.
3. Beside JKD’s Bob Breen who originally helped pat set up the rapid Arnis UK, what other long-term study has he taken regarding bonified instruction? Since you cant really count the odd visit to the Philippines in order to truly study any art form it takes years not weeks.
4. As for, Peter Bradbury. One of pats students not mine, since im sure his ability stands out a lot better at Pat’s School mainly due to the fact he never fairs too well against students of his own age group at the Colne Valley Black Belt Academy. Do your homework child and you may find that the club were you originally started your training is associated with, Steve Rowe 6th Dan a former chairman of the EKGB (English Karate Governing Body) Jon Jepson 6th Dan of Nest Management. Steve Benitez of PENCAK Silat Wali Songo. Peter Consterdine of the BCA, Britons oldest karate association. AS regarding FMA then just talk to Karl Tanswell (JKD) and Andy Norman (Keysi Fighting Method) who both advocate real stick fighting, not sport. Furthermore if you ever taken the time to inquire your original instructor, who feels that he may have failed in giving you the correct guidance and sense of direction actually graded under Ticky Donovan, Alfie Lewis, Peter Consterdine and Phil Milner. I wouldn’t at all be surprised if you hadn’t heard of them since your without doubt a small fish in an even smaller pond and im sorry to say it, but it looks as if that’s were your destined to stay. So peter you did drag me down to your level but im happy to admit you’ll never beat me on experience.
As for Pat is concerned it’s a big shame since his tiny group of friends evidently is gets smaller by the day.
Hmmmm

Bob Sykes 6Th Dan
Editor of Britain’s best selling martial arts publication

 

Would this be FMA or Karate i dont fair to well against? and also im sure iv been fighting adults for a while now....

Well you were the once that encouraged me to pick up Rapid Arnis as a twelve year old. As for the rest you shall recive my responce in PM.

Peter

 

Bob - As Aegis has said, that was a good start. Here on MAP, we have a Zero Tolerance rule regarding Personal Attacks. To me, calling the entire forum "keyboard combatants", is a personal attack against the 12,000-odd members.

This is part of the Terms of Service that you agreed to when you signed up.

Please read the Terms very carefully before you post again. Failure to comply with the Terms could see your posting rights/capabilities removed.

 

strange. in the philippines, what he said is usually followed by a challenge, a contact number, and a time and place to "play".

the other person then chooses the weapons and the rules (i.e. "to the death", "first blood", "first drop", "k.o." etc.)

so mr. editor, are you calling someone out?

 

Simply based on this thread Im more likely to belive Pat than Bob.
I am also more likely to read MAI in WHsmiths and then leave it on the shelf.

 

I'll host it. I got plenty of host space for it.......

And I dont like your tone either, but thats a different issue. Provide the video if you want to prove something, dont engage in word play, let the actions speak for themselves.

I agree.

I wouldnt even bother reading it, its obviously only being editted for profit and not truth or any form of caring for its readers, with an attitude like that being publically shown.......

 

this bits news to me, and i took part in it im sure Pat's already mentioned it was a demo though......

Peter

 

Hello Peeps,

As you all probably know I do not post on here very often....but this time I feel I have reason and perhaps am the only witness to this crime.

Seeing as it was my kitchen, this all began in I hope I can also finish it.

Tony politely asked Pat if he would be interested in supporting a charity do in his local area by taking part in a demo to help promote the stick. Pat being Pat was all to eager to help someone else as usual and loves to help get the FMA noticed by an unsuspecting public. Tony's exact words were "really, you would do that, you would come and take part" and Pat said "of course". Tony then said "well my guy is alright and I think he will be good one day, so please take it easy". Pat said "don't worry I will not take the micky, I will make him look good and put on a good show". He got the understanding he did not want him humiliated in front of his home crowd and so did I. And Tony once again said " Are you sure, you don't mind" he then said "would you be able to supply another fighter aswell?" Pat offered to put another player in but Tony said "no he is a bit good how about Peter Bradbury." Myself and Pat quickly said " Peter is good too" but we agreed he would probably enjoy the experience of a demo event. And he also agreed to put another very young lad in to display a form. (to which he has not had any mention along with the other kids efforts)

So that is how it started. Pat agreed to make the other guy look good.

So regardless of any Video footage or not, Pat was not fighting to win, he was fighting to make it a good demo, and keeping to his agreement of not beating the other guy up.

Can someone tell me this, surely if it was a 'real' competition would we not have had 3 impartial judges, a qualified impartial referee in the stick tournament format (MMMMmmm I think so), the other guy would not have been allowed to have time outs as and when he wanted (the other guy put his knee to the floor on at least 2 occassions for a rest during the rounds, this is not normal procedure in a stick competition) and the use of a realistic weapon would have been requested as Pat asked to use his own stick, but they said the other guy has been practicing with these so it would not be fair to change now. And I am sure Pat would have had a cornerman too. Also the other 2 stick demo's were called as draws (you cannot have a draw in a real stick competition), which is the usuall sportman like action to take for a demo bout, so when they called the other guy as winning on Pats we just laughed, because it was a friendly joke. At least we thought so at the time.

Now Bob, calm down.....Why are you suddenly questioning grades and stuff, you know Pat well, why are you stooping so low and trying to scratch his eyes out. What exactly has he done to you. Why are you confirming all your grades, Pat has never questioned them, and never will. He has no reason to. I think you are taking this personally for some reason. In all the time I have known Pat he has had nothing but good words to say about you, so I feel slightly disappointed in your reaction here. It seems you are going all out to tear down a good friend, Why?

It is only since your post, we have searched for all comments with the name 'Bob Sykes' in and we found Peter did once post a question back in December asking if any one knew who you were, and why shouldn't he ask, he wasn't being nasty he is just a curious and informative teenager. Perhaps he wanted to hear people praise you and your background. It would seem to me, you are going to hold this against a 17 year old lad and put him down and get nasty. Intimidating him is not the answer here. He is a very talented young lad in Arnis and I am sure in Karate too. Perhaps he could have worded his question better but surely your job as an instructor is to educate him and guide him not tear him down at the first hurdle or mistake.

This is the first we knew of this today, but you are acting like Pat has put him up to it and been the instigator (you should know him by now, if he has something to say, he will say it himself. He does not need to use back handed tactics to view his opinion or question abilities for him). This is not the case, Pat would never do that and he never influences any of his students actions or comments ever. If anything he encourages them to speak their own mind and have their own opinions, even if they are critisizing him, he welcomes it, I should know, I critisize him all the time. (I think he is cack handed, how about that one) He is brilliant at FMA and a fantastic teacher but sometimes I don't like the way he does techniques, so I am sure there are others too, so I tell him. At the moment my word of advice for him, is he is too soft on people, thats why they think it is o.k to walk all over him and write what they like, knowing normally he will laugh it off. He got you this time, just because he has not laughed it off you are all getting upset. Was he not predicatable for a change....oh dear.

On this occasion, they focussed too much on him and forgot about the kids and other participants that made that day/event possible. They used him as a headliner and 50% of the article was about Pat. I call this entrappment. Lure him in under your rules, put his face just where you want it and make up your own story in front of witnesses. Easy pickings I think.

I think you have made a mistake here, we can all get nasty if we want, but what will that achieve. Why not pick on the many cowboys that are out there ruining the martial arts name, but oh yeah....that would not make headlines would it, let's attempt to ruin the hard earned reputation of someone nice, that's easier.

I would rather he had just stayed at home that day with me and the baby (4 weeks old, at the time) but no he dragged us out with him and went all out to help the very people who are now going all out to try and ruin him. MMmmm Nice.

Pat retired from tournaments in 2001 partially because of politics and partially for family reasons. Why would he have come out of retirement straight after I had my baby. One reason, I would not have let him and another he had no intention too. He has nothing to prove. I have seen him loose competitions and it did not even slightly ruffle his feathers and he never complained. So just accept, this is not about the winning or loosing, it is about the false claims and unjust headline. You were out of order and this forced Pat to respond even though he did not want to because he knew it would mean tacklin a friend. But at the end of the day you left him with no choice.

It's quite funny to see exactly the same thing happening again, as it did when we had our first child 5 years ago. Several people thought they could climb over Pat and stamp all over him while he was pre occupied with a new baby and a wife with kidney failure. Which just proves that when you show a weakness even the people you thought were your friends fight for the opportunity to take you down.

But any way, I have not retired, and I will quite happily take anyone on, be it tournament rules, Black Eagle/Dog Brothers style, or an out right challenge or shall we call it a demo and let everyone else make up there own stories. :woo:

Disappointed........

Lucy

 

Having not seen it, or not been involved in the matter, theres not a lot I can say regarding this. But from my experience with Pat on here and talking to others who know him, I would just like to say it really does appear he's been stitched up here. Having the same type of attitude as Pat (Im far to damn helpful and friendly) I can understand how he must feel about this. There are a LOT of people who know Pat better than me, but I still like to say he's got my full backing on this. If Pat says he was told it was a demo, and agreed to make the lad look good ...... then thats what happened as far as Im concerned.


oh, and one more thing......... Hi Lucy Hope the baby doin well! Someday I hope to get over to a meet and meet you for you seem like a great lady.

 

Unfortunately this why we will never have REAL solidarity in the Martial arts community. Mainly because of politics & EGOS! What we have seen here is certainly a case of ENTRAPMENT and using the name of an accomplished and distinguished Martial artist to help boost the profile of a relatively unknown novice.
So Mr Bob Sykes does it make you feel good coming on here calling this community and many of your MAI readers "key board combatants"? Can you honestly tell me that statement was devoid of ego? Where do you get off questioning Pat's validity as an instructor? I can gurantee you that many eskrimadors and filipino martial artists & instructors both here in the UK and the Philippines acknowledge his contributions to his art as a fighter and instructor. Hell ask Grand Master Danny Guba and I know for a fact that he will help to refute your reservations regadring Pat's credentials.

I am surprised you actually take this tone with him and frankly believe it to be a dissappoinment especially coming from someone of your calibre. You also seem to suggest that Filipino martial arts is not as good as say Keysi fighting method's stick fighting? What a complete joke! I havent seen anything so funny and non-functional ever!

You have just lost an otherwise avid reader of MAI. Will have to go and check out Combat and Budo UK magazines from now on for my regular hit of Martial arts news.

Mark G

 

Oh the hilarity of Mr Sykes claiming the MAists here are "keyboard warriors". A true show of ignorance - and not very original to boot.

 

I don't know Pat or Bob so i'm objective but after reading this thread in its entirety and had a think about it, it is clear that BobSykes and MAI have acted like complete low-lives. Where Bob had one chance to patch things up a bit with his post, and seek a resolution (does he not even feel remotely bad about it?), he instead resorted to personal insults and down-right rudeness in what could only be called a childish and petty attempt to save some face.

They used a CHARITY even to stitch him up... that in itself is a disgrace, never mind the fact that Pat was doing it out of his own good nature. That would be like me saying "ive got 10 days to live please come to my party"... the principle is the same.

Not what I would expect of an experienced and respected martial artist or a professional publication... A poor showing indeed... shameful behaviour.

 

I dont see Pat as having anything to apologise for .....

Id reccomend Combat mag to anyone....good articles and a better aura of providing a service, not abusing it.

 

Thanks,
Bearing in mind we could say that readers of the MA mags are just Magazine Combatants as opposed to people trying to find information and educate themselves. But because we as humans have this urge to progress in all forms of life a vast majority of the worlds population has taken up the age of the computer, why? because information and facts can be found much quicker, as a matter of fact it is instant as opposed to having to wait 1, 2, 3 or even 4 weeks to get an answer that sometimes cannot be backed up with other sources of information. Forums such as these are on the increase and many well achieved martial artists use these places to 1. debate. 2. Find out facts and 3. to help inform people, just as the Martial Arts Magazines do only it's quicker. Obviously you are angry about something other than my response, what it is I don't know, but all I can say is, now you know how I am feeling with regards to this subject.

If as you say Muhktar beat me, then all I can say to him is congratulations but that is not the point is it Bob, I am pleased for him and I hope he puts his win to good use. E.g. to go on and win some major titles in his chosen sport. Muhktar fought admorably and he was fun to spar with and I am sure he feels he has acheived something which in my mind is good. The thing I would like to know is this, why did'nt anyone tell me it was an official tournament? and who sanctioned it? As I mentioned before, I was under the impression that it was a CHARITY DEMO. Now if I had known it was an official tournament one of two things would have happened. 1. I would not have turned up, I retired as you already know. or 2. I would have come out of retirement and fought in a legitimate tournament that had something worth winning (such as a bonified title). And if Muhktar had beaten me I would have been the first person to congratulate him. Ask those who have beaten me in the past, most of which have gone on to win world titles. So good luck Muhktar I hope you do well.

So I don't bore you going over all of the details again please read my responce at the beginning of this thread.

Thank you for the compliment, What better credentials do I need. But to clarify a minor point of (Rapid Arnis International) I set up the Rapid Arnis group with my long time training partner John Harvey not Bob Breen. Bob however, was responsible for introducing me to the Filipino martial arts and he not only taught me well, he helped me gain the opportunity to train with many top grand masters from around the world in my chosen art, as well as this he opened up the opportunity for me to train at the source where my chosen art came from, in the Philippines, how many people can say they have had the unique opportunity to train with the masters of their art in the country of origin, I consider my self lucky and this is something I will always be gratefull to Bob Breen for, a man who's credentials do not come into question, as a matter of fact he is somewhat of a pioneer in many peoples eyes when it comes to both Filipino martial arts, Jeet Kune Do in Europe and along with this he helped pioneer Kick Boxing in the UK. So again thanks for the compliment.

Now maybe we are really getting to the point here? And it is a shame that you feel the need to ostrocise a young eager student who actually enjoys training under your guidance and talent, for if he was not an eager student would he not have left your company a long time ago? after all no one is obliged to stay with anyone if they feel they are not benefiting from their guidance. So have you excluded Peter from your club just for being curious? as the last I heard he was still an active, willing and respectful member.

Yes Peter may be a child in your eyes, but I am please to say he is a very talented young man in mine, with a lot of potentual as both a fighter and a future instructor in Arnis. What he was like under your guidance I do not know and quite frankley after reading this response I feel he may well benefit from your obvious exclusion. You have to remember Bob, he is but 17 years old, he is curious to know what he is learning is recognised, especially in this day and age when we all know too well that people are willing to pay for their credentials as opposed to earning them. Maybe he does not know your past and the good reputation you earnt after all he is a new generation of martial artists, so he asked for outside confirmation that what he is doing is bonifide. And what is the problem with that?
many people have done the same thing with me, and they are still with me, why? because they were happy with the results they found as I am sure there are some that felt my repatoire was not enough for them, so seeked training elsewhere, that's life.

As for you comment earlier "AS regarding FMA then just talk to Karl Tanswell (JKD) and Andy Norman (Keysi Fighting Method) who both advocate real stick fighting, not sport." is that to say I do not advocate "Real Stick Fighting" and only favour sport. Then maybe I was not one of the original founders of the "Black Eagle Society" a group akin to America's Dog Brothers. As a matter of fact I advocate several forms of pressure testing within the Filipino martial arts or within any martial art for that matter, some are sport orrientated and others are what you could term as "Real Fighting" each of which has both benefits and disadvantages. But hey what do I know, I have no credentials;

Let me just read off this brass plaque to you though which I can scan and place as a picture if you feel I am making it up:​

WEKAF HQ
(World Eskrima Kali Arnis Federation)
(Full address witheld under MAP terms and conditions)
Banilad, Cebu City, Philippnes.​

AWARD OF EXCELLENCE

to

Pat O'Malley

FOR EXCELLENT DISPLAY OF EXTRAORDIANRY SKILL, ABILITY AND COURAGE IN A NO-HOLDS BARRED FULL CONTACT AND WITHOUT PROTECTIVE GEARS OF STICK AND OPEN HANDS SPARRING HELD AS SPECIAL EVENT DURING THE 5TH WORLD ESKRIMA KALI ARNIS CHAMPIONSHIPS IN CEBU CITY, PHILIPPINES ON JUNE 21, 1998.

GIVEN THIS 21ST DAY OF JUNE 1998 IN CEBU CITY, PHILIPPINES

SINGED

MICHAEL R. CANETE
Chairman, ORGANISING COUNCIL
5TH WEKAF WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS

&

GRAND MASTER DIONISIO CANETE
Chairman, WEKAF.
​

I obviously only advocate the sport so much and not "Real Stick Fighting" that this event never actually happened? Mmmm. The pain must have been imaginary too.

Bob I know my credentials and I am happy with them both on paper and otherwise and I have no need to get into a certificate waving battle with you, You obviously feel the need to flag wave which I feel is a shame for I know you are a very talented man and should not feel the need to do this. As I have said before I have nothing to prove and neither do you, been there, done it, got the t-shirt as they say. But hey, in the big scheme of things who really cares.​

Well lets say it may take me a little longer than most, but I eventually find out who my real friends are. And if it is as you say getting smaller by the day, then thank god for that. Because with friends like these who needs enemies.

Quite frankly Bob, I thought better of you, and considered you a friend, not just a pawn that can be used as you see fit just to promote your magazine, I am sure there are far far better ways for you to do this. But I could be wrong eh!

I wish you all the best in your future endevours.

Pat
(As in all real FMA no rank or credentials need be posted, we respect each other regardless)