Mace, Tazers and knives.

"Thanks for the link KC, I haven't been hit with one but I hope to have a chance some time down the road."






OOOOooooo..................Kay!

 

American Police: "Stop or I'll shoot !"


British Police: "Stop or I'll -toot- !" Pweep ! Pweep !


There are several brands of Mini-MagLite (AA battery) look-alikes now at 6.5 - 7". Great yawara stick substitute. Yes, you will have to hang on to it but it'll provide focused impact better than a hammer fist, reverse hammer fist, or punch. Male or female. And little or no damage to the hand.

"Against the law to protect yourself". That kind of legal thinking has never set well with me so I take on the risk of ignoring it vs. the risk of potential assault under certain circumstances.

Even in the UK, their legal system could never prove you were carrying a flashlight with an intent of hurting someone.

 

*LOL*

And searching for that MagLite in your pocket, just seemed to be the right thing to do, as that thug jumped your face i broad daylight !

No, seriously ....
It's never against the law to defend yourself. But there may very well be restrictions as to the degree in which you do so.
I've often heard people stating that in case of an attack, they wouldn't really care what the law says.
To me that's plain stupid.
Why not try to understand the law, and adapt your training to fit that law ?

Ignoring the law is one certain way to help the attacker out of legal punishment, and legal self defense techniques need in no way to be less effective that illegal ones, as long as they are practised with self defense AND the following legal acts in mind, and not just "winning the fight" and not caring what comes after that.

 

No way to prove it? Gee, I guess the Govn't has NOOO way to see internet forums as evidence *hint* *hint*.

 

"Intent" is covered in the interview of a suspect. In my experience the vast majority of people that I have interviewed convict themselves not so much by what they have done as by what they have said.

"I just panicked and I was in fear for my life. I lashed out in blind panic as I was being robbed and that is all I can really remember". This is a lot more impressive than "This little git tried to mug me so I chinned him and then hit again on the way down". I am not saying that MORALLY the second person was in the wrong, but "the law" has to be blind.

I am sure UK posters do not need to be reminded of Tony Martin.

Lex - we don't have whistles anymore! ANyway you cannot shoot someone for running away. British Police tend to shout "Stop or when I catch hold of you you'll get a good kicking for making me break a sweat" ....(please note this is joke!)

Monty raises a good point - why would you need a torch in you pocket in broad daylight? That would suggest to me as an investigator INTENT for the maglite.

 

I was once attacked in my home by gangsters who were led to believe I was a drug dealer. At one point I came up brandishing a huge bayonet which I believed I'd use in such situations.

Just holding it caused them to back off, but still I was trapped in the room. Very soon, they (and I) realised I had no will to use the damn thing - the sudden realisation drained me of ALL my will, like shock or something. They ended up beating me up and left taking the knife with them.

I felt like a complete idiot and I'm not going down that path again unless the situation gets really serious.

Rgds,
David

 

A very valuable lesson David, thanks for sharing that with us all. I am glad you were not hurt too badly in the circumstances.

Any weapon is only as good as it's wielder. To use an analogy, I can give you eggs, sugar, flour and milk - but that doesn't mean you can bake a cake

 

David,

Thank you for sharing. One important aspect of teaching self defense is discussing hwo far someone is willing to go (as in your situation). That personally is something that I've been mulling over for years. I've finally made peace with the answer for myself: as far as I need to protect my loved ones and myself. But that statement and understanding has taken me years to get to.

Sorry to hear that happened to you.

- Matt

 

personally i believe that no-one should carry weapons like knives and mace. They get too easily used and could be used against an innocent person thats just caught you by surprise. If a person has gone out and has it in their bag then they usually hold it in their hand just waiting to use it. You could have dropped something and a passer by taps you on the shoulder. in return you give him a full shot of mace. Nice!!!
If mace will knock you for six then imagine what a stab to the gut would do. Its easy to mistake an accident for an attack and lash out.

MISTAKES HAPPEN SO LEARN FROM THEM

 

You're most welcome to my lesson . It took a while to get over it emotionally and psychologically. That experience almost certainly helped steer me to MA and I'm pleased about where I am.

Regarding women and dangerous situations - it grieves me that girls and women wear clothes that can only be a liability in an emergency. I'm thinking platform and high-heeled shoes, long skirts and dresses mainly but even a handbag can be a liability if you have to run.

Socialogical conditioning has rendered the greater proportion of women effectively disabled by their clothes. There is a case of abdication of personal responsibility to answer: why do they (you?) render yourself helpless, constrain yourself in such a way?

Some aspects of Life are serious and this is one of them. Please don't accuse me of saying women are literally 'asking' to be raped' etc: that is not my opinion and not what I have said. What I am saying is that such people are asking for trouble (in the figurative sense) by not taking fundamental precautions against the statistical (real) possiblity of being involved in a bad situation.

Even as a man, I apply this rule to myself. I abhor wearing a suit/tie. A suit would preclude me from being happy to get on the ground and look under my car for a fault. A tie seems to me to be ludicrous: it's a garrot, a leash and a general safety hazard in that it can get caught in machinery etc. Smart shoes generally have no grip and offer poor support. For me, it's all about practicality and function.

Rgds,
David.

 

This is a really good point from ICT.

My partner is also in the police (but in the UK), and, although they are issued with CS gas, has said that the times when you would be most likely to use it, i.e. on somebody who is excessively violent due to drugs or psychological problems, it doesn't work.

And also it's easy to gas yourself during a struggle, which is probably a good point to bear in mind with other weapons, as well, as David has suggested.


P.S. Sorry to hear about that incident David.

 

hiya
I agree with david
when helping to teach classes, i would advise the women in the class to try to avoid getting in the situation in the first place. however on a night out it is scary to see women who are so drunk that they cant even stand up, let alone defend themselves, weapon or not. When i suggested to some of the girls that i worked with that they took a flat pair of shoes to the club (the reason why cloakrooms were invented) their opinion was no need, it will never happen to me.
Im not saying dont go out and have fun, but at least take time to think how you will get home, dont walk by yourself etc.
personally even thou i have done a bit of knife work i really wouldnt want to use it on some one, it would really have to be my last resort. i would have major issues stabbing/killing someone even if they were attacking me.
cheers

 

yeah stickgirl, I was hoping to think of a way that my post didn't sound like I was stamping on fun. Cloakrooms is the answer .

I'm back on this thread with a link to a news story in the Guardian newspaper.

Rgds,
Davod

 

Proper training brings proper use. At least 90% of the times.
thousands of women have fended off rapist that have not had any prior training. It is a matter of will. You can't always be successful, but you'll never be if you don't give it everything you have.

First let me say that if this happened, then I'm glad you made it out OK.
Gnagsters attacked you in your home because they thought you were a drug dealer. Hummm, and you didn't fight to defend your life. Its not the weapons fault that you didn't have any will to survive, it wouldn't have matter what you had. That is why they took the knife.

 

TBH, I took the risk that I'd get out of it OK just by letting them get on with it. I was defeated by the knife-realisation and then slipped into victim compliance.

The fine details of what was said, done and thought would go some way to mitigate your negative appraisal but your point is valid. I had managed to call for help from the windows so I had expectation/hope of a Police response and after my deflation, it seemed wise to help them go along with their business. They were looking for 'my' drugs and money rather than seeking to knecap em or worse.

Helluva risk to take, nonetheless. It was a Sunday morning and I'd only been asleep about 2 hours when the guy knocked...

Rgds,
David

 

I almost always carry a knife. I don't carry it for self defence though, I carry it because it seems I always need to open/cut things and never have anything to do it with. (I wouldn't hesitate to use it if someone was trying to rape me though. It wouldn't do much damage, but maybe surprise them enough to have them loosen their grip for a few seconds so I could run away.) I keep it clipped on my back pocket for easy access.

Here's the model I own. It's a Kershaw Scallion 1620. Nice assisted opening feature too. (pic came off a retail site, not my pic.)

 

What? The biggest problem is getting people to understand the weapon isn't worth a flip if you do NOT have ready access to it. Getting someone to actually USE even mace is a PITA.

Yes, I've been maced, can't say it even began to stop me (boot camp gas house). Like everything else it isn't 100%.

Tazers - see above.

Knife - in your heart of hearts do you think you can REALLY carve someone up? (see David's post) If not don't carry it.

Tell me you are kidding. Take a good look at an anatomy chart. Realize the blade will go deeper than it's length on a full force thrust (body compression). I'd almost garooonteee they loosen their grip IF you started full force thrusts to the torso and/or slashes to the face.

 

The scallion is nice, although the lock could make it a pain to deploy quickly (I've got a scallion and a blackout), especially under stress, I'm thinking the Mini-Mojo would be better for that.

On Mace, I've only carried it for bears, the dog I had with me was much more use, the bloody mace blew back into my face.

 

'Hey Poogle, how's it going?'

'OK, I'm just in town doing a little shopping in broad daylight. Going home in a few mins'.

'Hey, we're all headed out to dinner and then to the cinema, want to come?'

'Sure, ok'.

<Five hours later>

'Oh no, Poogle, it's dark, are you going to be ok getting home?'

'Yeah, no worries, I always carry a torch in my my handbag in case I ever need it'.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

 

Considering how much stuff I carry around in my pockets (seven kilos at last count) a flashlight wouldn't even be remarkable. For that matter, neither would Jimmy Hoffa, George Bush's service records and the Lost Ark of the Covenant.