MA vs Boxers

Discussion in 'Boxing' started by CirrusFalcon, Feb 4, 2004.

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  1. Guy Mendiola

    Guy Mendiola New Member

    Majority of Boxers are trained to keep their hands up which is a number one rule in Boxing so IMO either a kick to the stomach or just a roundhouse to an open side wouldn't necessarily ko'd them because their elbows are protecting the side sides so odds are predictable.
  2. Bruce_Wee

    Bruce_Wee New Member

    i will use my own box-fu :woo:
    ok time to run :D
  3. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    Guy Mendiola = someone who has clearly never worked out with a remotely competent boxer.

    Trying a roundhouse against an opponent who enters hard on a straight line is going have some rather bad results.

    - Matt
  4. leeless

    leeless Handshaker extraordinaire

    OK, has everyone finished coming in with the "I will do this and a boxer is trained to do that so I will take advantage of this and do that" post?

    God damn it.

    *hits head against brick wall*
  5. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    Matt = someone with lots of sparring time against good boxers??? :D

    A well timed kick COULD be far more effective than trying to out punch a boxer. What would your game plan be?
  6. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    And has been knocked out a few times to prove it.

    Agreed, but where you're kicking is key. I would not use standard roundhouses kicks as they don't have enough stopping power. And boxers have a tendency to enter in on a hard straight line. That means that they're moving inside the power range of the kick. Considering that most standard roundhouses hit with the power of a solid jab, that won't most likely have enough stopping power at rib or head level to halt the foward progress. And you'll be on one leg as that fighter has traversed from kick range to hand range.

    Stay out of hand range to begin with. Controlling distance is important. I'd use Thai front kicks in order to preserve range and hopefully discourage a straight blast 1-2 combo.

    But, excepting that, I'd probably never kick above the waist. Instead I'd utilize either stop/check kicks or thai style roundhouses to the inner and outer thigh lines (going after nerve targets to limit mobility). There is a reasons Thai Boxers fight the way they do.

    Try to play a low/high/low game, using lowline kicks to draw attention. Keep my head covered and my guard extemely tight. Play to the jab side (being very cognisant of the lead tight hook) trusting the fact that many boxers use a power cross. If I have the chance employ a lead hit, rear block/parry hand structure.

    If I'm feeling really sassy, or it looks like they're a little winded, I'd probably use a technique like a S.P.E.A.R. to crash their line and take him/her into trapping/knee range (trusting the fact that they aren't used to having someone that close/using elbows & knees). But that's high risk. And if I did, I'd go with MAJOR GUNS! Towards->Through->Past. If I have the opportunity (ad I think we're of equal strength) I would probably use an opportunity like this to go to the ground.

    Of course in that scenario I could be being rope-a-doped and end up getting plowed by a tight hook or uppercut. Ground is a possibility, but given the strength and condition that most boxers are in (and how rusty my ground game is) I'm not sure that is as advantageous as I would like.

    Honestly, I'm not at a point in my life where I would feel comfortable stepping in the ring with an average boxer and going very hard. My cardio isn't where it should be. Plus I've been concentrating for the last year on things other than sparring. The next 10 months or so I'll be refocusing my training and by the end of that I expect that I'll be doing this sorta stuff a lot more.

    - Matt
  7. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    Good post Matt, thanks for replying. Sounds like a good game plan to me! I think your right with the straight or lower kicks instead of going for a higher round. Pobably a lower risk move.

    What do you mean by the S.P.E.A.R. Is that ploughing into them shoulder first?
  8. hunter_kaval

    hunter_kaval The Ronin

    Yeah i was wondering the same what is S.P.E.A.R. :confused:

    Also nice post i like the sound of your game plan. :woo:
  9. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    S.P.E.A.R. is more of philosophy/delivery system than a direct technique. Developed by Tony Blauer (, it stands for Spontanious Protection Enabling Accelerated Response.

    The basic physical manifestation of it, is a very direct straight line "charge" in and through a person, keeping your hand out in front of you in a "spear" shape, using the principle of the unbendible elbow. One arm is intercepting the bicept line, the other is going to the clavical line. Excellent against hooks. And useful to deflect techniques while crashing the person's centerline. The overall effect is to drive the person backwards and off balance (Strangely reminisant of some Hsing Yi technqiues/concepts).

    If you check out the website you can find a number of pictures of it.

    - Matt
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2004
  10. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    matt, sounds like a plan. i too have contingency plans when i spar with a boxer.

    boxing rules: box. what else can you do.

    nhb rules: a little pound to bait for take down and then go to gnp or subs, whichever presents itself. i know i've got a 50-50 chance of getting knocked on my seat going in so, i won't kid myself. i find that sagasa kickboxing's rush defense works handily when the boxer goes into a flurry.

    real fight: take out a weapon, any weapon. use it.

    real fight 2: offer a beer or run.

    note: i'd have a 30% chance at any of these to work. 70%- i'll be seeing stars sooner than i can say: "what the h..."
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2004
  11. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    Why I love the Filipino Martial Arts.

    - Matt
  12. ziseez

    ziseez Valued Member

    i gotta re-add to this because old dude said i havent fought a boxer and i have, it all depends on speed of the technique to do effective things to a boxer because of the fast punches, but the boxer also has to be a good boxer for the speed,ive studied both but boxing only about a month and got bored because i saw aikido and i like throwing people lol.
  13. Stuart H

    Stuart H On the Mandarin bandwagon

    An observation - how did this hypothetical fight with the boxer start? Did you square up and go at it? I would have thought had you not just been jumped, there would have been a pre-contact phase. So you could beat him the same as anyone else - non-threatening posture, verbal distraction, then pre-emptive strike.

    What do you think of straight blasting a boxer?
  14. C-Fugazi

    C-Fugazi New Member

    If its in the ring under the Marquis of Queensbury rules (boxing rules) then who do you guys think will come out on top?
    If its not under the Marquis of Queensbury rules and under MMA rules then obviously the outcome will be different.

    If its on the street then there are no rules and the boxer can use any part of his body that his opponent is using.
    I box and have done for the best part of twenty years and I have also trained in Karate and Aikido.
    My personal opinion is that its far better to train in all styles of martial arts rather than joining a gym that can teach you 'MMA' as your simply a 'Jack of all trades but master of none'.
  15. Stuart H

    Stuart H On the Mandarin bandwagon

    I would suggest getting a copy of Geoff Thompson's Watch My Back and reading the chapter on Street Fighters and Trained Fighters
  16. Kagebushi

    Kagebushi New Member

    the main thing to go for is things that cant be done in a boxing ring(gouges, arm strikes, grappling, kicks, groin strikes, etc.) if you can get a good knee stomp in you can end it, and if he only boxes, he isnt likely to see it coming, of course, you have to be in punching range, which is reeealy bad, but sometimes it cant be avoided. otherwise, i'd just keep away from his fists with kicks and arm strikes (unless he jabs, i'd never be able to punch a jabbing arm) and if you somehow let him grab your foot, take advantage of the fact that at least one hand is tied up, and attack, or take it to the ground. hope he tries to clinch. if he does, that is about the best grappling oppurtunity youll ever get.
  17. Griffen

    Griffen New Member

    boxing vs other

    I really enjoyed the post by Cirrus Falcon on boxing.
    I too have often wondered about the pro's & con's between diff. styled artists, and would like to add my 2 cents.

    Boxing without a doubt is an amazing art, like all disciplines, but there are a few reasons why i think a boxer would be limited against another style.

    Difference in ranges: As boxers fight med-short ranges, as with the addition to kicks gives the long range combattant the advantage.

    Boxers master the art of the bob & weave: Slipping various punches or countering on the opponents "beats" to attack. Other styles tend to parry & counter, "trap" (see jeet) a punch making an opening for counter/attack. The trapping not only opens a "gate" for an attack, but nullifies the punching arm that was thrown.

    Some attack's are also not meant for the head or the body, as in the use of "chin-na", locks & holds. The snake style; cobra tends to attack the nevous system or actual weapon that was thrown leaving the limb numb and obvious opening for attack.

    The other is gear, most boxers use gloves (diff weights) and can take a lot of punishment, but vs. bare hands makes the boxer defensively an ordinary man.

    Ground fighting is a boxers nightmare.

    Boxing hands down is a very reputable style and shall is give full credits by me, and as a result some styles (including mine) have adopted some of it to the mix. If you ever do encounter a boxer, do not run, chances are with his great stamina, you will be caught. make the fight 2 mins max. or start writing a will.

    I would love to see a "sparring" session with a kung-fu artist(using the above) without kicks vs. a boxer without gloves.
  18. Guy Mendiola

    Guy Mendiola New Member

    I doubt that a practitioner other from Boxing would be throwing that much kicks in the streets but it all leads up to punching which Boxing is more reliable.
  19. Kagebushi

    Kagebushi New Member

    not really. some people just are better punchers. for them, yes it all leads up to punching, for me, its more kicks and locks. different people are better at different stuff.
  20. Albert

    Albert Banned Banned

    There we go, archibald explained it.
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