Wiki's an unreliable source as it is, since I can go on there and change whatever I want to say whatever I want. If it's referenced to another source though, that usually helps get the bigger picture.
You can score with close range techniques but no-one ever tries as by the time you've closed enough distance, a medium/long-range technique has made contact.
Lyoto Machida's steps to being a bad ass: Step 1: Train hard Step 2: Drink your own urine Step 3: ??? Step 4: BAD ASS
So it wouldn't be an unfair assessment to say that, though they learn the techniques, they don't typically fight with them? In Kyokushin we have the same problem. We'll train head punches but when the kumite starts since they're not allowed nobody thinks about them, hands drop, and bad habits form.
I'd personally say the jury's out on that one. I think if you train in a club that looks at how to close the distance you'll find more close range stuff. We have goju people, and people who generally like to fight close or end up close, so we use knees and to an extent elbows - although not in a MT clinch way, more like a 'no room to extend the kick' kind of way'. Although obviously if you're getting that close half the time you're liable to end up on the floor.
I'd say that probably is a fair assessment. I can quite honestly say that I've never used an elbow in jiyu kumite in about 9 years of training despite the fact that we've trained them fairly consistently in drills. If you end up in elbowing range, most people will go for a throw but, because most shotokan people are very cautious about distancing, as soon as there's the slightest narrowing of distance people will start punching and kicking until either one wins or they regain distance.
I'll add that I've only used an elbow once. And that was a very conscious decision against someone who was annoying me with their goju trapping stuff
thanks for all the contributions so far.... just to re-iterate the question. what 5 things has Lyoto put into his training that are special ? what 5 principal things has he removed from shotokan ? lets forget about urine drinking as i only do beer
I think when it comes to his karate, he hasn't modified much, what he has done is he has added grappling to it, and he has also sparred against muay thai stylists to get a feel of what to expect other than that i think he uses karate well because he ahs personilsed the standrad karate template to suit his strengths and weaknesses. Also i would bet my bottom dollar he does heaps of percussion and sparring with good contact, just like the muay thai camps, using pads heavy bag, maybe even makiwara. Even his little brother Chinzo i think he is his name does exactly the same thing. Chinzo Machida in mma [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4L4jDitr8o"]YouTube- Chinzo Machida (Lyoto's Brother) Vs Cristiano Rosa - Jungle Fight[/ame] Here is an interview with Lyoto Machida on a mma site. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How has Karate influenced your MMA game? Karate is my main game and has given me all the aspects of the fight game, my speed and everything. I think it is what sets me apart from everybody else and is what brought me to where I'm at. Not only does my stance complicate a lot of things for my opponents, but my stance also puts me in different positions and in different ways of standing, and this complicates people very much because I'm not inside that pattern of boxing and Muay Thai, I go beyond that. Do you train Muay Thai and boxing? I train only my Machida Karate, I'll spar with a boxer or a Muay Thai guy but I don't train specifically boxing or Muay Thai. I'll throw some knees and throw some moves out there but when I train with a Muay Thai guy it's to learn how to adapt his game. The whole interview here. http://www.worldofcombat.net/lyoto-mach ... rview.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lyoto talks about karate training at the 4:12 minute mark. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ4cAVDR4Us&feature=related]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ4cAVDR4Us&feature=related[/ame] A private lesson with Lyoto Machida http://www.ozmaforums.com/Forums/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=822 Machida and his father are JKA shotokan karateka. JKA karate - shobu ippon [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkGP0AM14F0"]YouTube- KARATE SHOTOKAN JKA Kumite[/ame] Lyoto Machida in his karate days [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nqbAfzrg-E"]YouTube- Lyoto Machida - Karate[/ame] Chinzo Machida in his karate days [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzQt2dO4JGU"]YouTube- Karate JKA Chinzo Machida vs Ryosuke Shimizu[/ame] Osae uke jodan seiken gyaku zuki Lyoto Machida shotokan karateka in UFC karate competition
While his Shotokan training is a large part of what makes Lyoto such a great fighter you give the impression that everything else he's trained is just there as a support system. The sentence I've highlighted especially I don't agree with. He's submitted numerous fighters, including most recently Sok with a perfectly set up armtriangle. His BJJ training isn't only there to defend against BJJers.
Whereas I agree to an extent (there's no denying he's good on the ground!) I think when he has gone for submissions, on the whole, he hasn't planned them and designed the fight around getting them. They've been more spontaneous attempts. I'd argue that he's is more inclined to keep the fight standing up, as that's where his strengths lie, so he uses BJJ as a support system until the point where it becomes more sensible to use it as a system of attack. Sound ok?
Two out of sixteen of his victories have been by submission...not really "numerous" if you ask me. He's good on the ground, no doubt. But watching him, it seems to me he much prefers to keep things on his feet. He's a striker first, a grappler second. And his striking game is almost entirely Shotokan. His Muay Thai training was only for a few months, and was more "learning how to fight Muay Thai guys" than "learning Muay Thai."
He takes dangerous strikers to the ground: Sam Greco, Michael McDonald, and Sokoudjou are the best examples. Remember, at this point, Sokoudjou was coming off of back-to-back KO victories against top-10 fighters. If Machida's losing the stand-up, or thinks the risk is too much, he'll switch up his game. BJJ is, to him, an acceptable way to end the fights. Frankly, I haven't been that impressed with his ground game. Not saying he's not competent down there, but he uses it mostly defensively, either to smother from on top or to lock down the guard from the bottom. It took him at least three attempts to get that shoulder choke on Sokoudjou, and a blind man could see it coming; vs. Sam Greco, a kickboxer not exactly known for his submission skills, Machida was barely able to hold him down and lost at least one arm bar because of a poor set-up. And who could forget the near-triangle vs. Tito? All that is why I find it hard to buy the, "he uses BJJ to defend against BJJ players" argument. That's why he stayed on the feet vs. Shogun and Silva, and tried his best to stay there vs. Penn. He epitomizes the MMA strategy of taking the fight to the place your opponent can't win. The only place he's outstanding is the stand-up, but he's good enough in the clinch and on the ground to use it against guys who are worse there.
i think a better argument might be "he uses bjj to avoid flopping around like a fish out of water when not standing up"
so this is all very interesting banter..... now ffs , answer the question what 5 things has he added to his shotokan ? what 5 things has he removed from his shotokan ? how many techniques do we do in shotokan that lyoto never uses ?
We have answered your question multiple times. We've tried to explain that there are no five specific things he does or does not do. It's not as simple as that. And swearing is not allowed on MAP, even in acronyms.
I think Llamageddon did answer your question - what kind of answers are you looking for? He removed yori ashi gyakuzuki and added juuji gatame? Karate is just a framework: you can tinker with it quite a bit and it still be karate. How often do you see head-butts in karate shiai kumite, but every shotokan club I've trained at has taught proper head-butting in combination drills. Does this make it an addition to karate, or is it a subtraction that we don't use it in shiai?
Ah, I should have checked his record more carefully! But he has gone to ground on purpose in quite a few fights, he's not a cro cop. My point was that his BJJ isn't solely there as a form of defence, he also uses it as a weapon, albeit not in his last three fights.
