Lunges...

Nowhere here do you say that squats are bad for the long term health of the lower back, which reinforces my point; You can't reiterate something which you never said in the first place. (You know, this grammatical hangup is bothering me more than the misinformation you're spouting. )

I'll restate my question: Why are squats bad for your lower back? I suspect you're getting your information from an irreputable source.

This one point proves to me that you have no idea about weight training, or basic kinesiology. I'll keep this in mind, now that I have a better idea of where you're coming from and how much you can grasp. Please tell Louie Simmons and the Westside crew that squats don't work your hamstrings, or hip flexors...or traps, delts, rhomboids, lats, abs, and spinal erectors. They'd enjoy hearing from you. www.deepsquatter.com


I was re-reading your posts on this thread, and I see a common vein in them. It's one which affects many, many martial artists. You see weight-training as "bodybuilding-style" only. Everything you're saying about weight-training, for the most part, is geared towards increasing muscle size. You're correct on some of those points (only some, but I won't get into that now), but for the most part, that style of training only reinforces the "Muscle-Bound Karate Guy" myth.

Martial artists would do well to be influenced by powerlifters and Olympic lifters, because they all have a common goal, though it isn't readily apparent. Their sports (generally speaking) are all weight-classed, and they require training to increase strength while maintaining size. This is called relative strength, and is usually what people mean by being the "strongest pound for pound". For martial artists, there comes a point in their training when more size becomes unnecessary (personal preference, competitive weight class, etc.)

Maybe the "powerlifters" you know lift to failure. But those who want permanent results lift with respect to their nervous system, which means they avoid failure at all costs. If you think this means they sacrifice intensity, please check out www.elitefts.com and try any of their routines for 4 weeks. Let me know then.

Mutt, I suggest you check out a few sites: www.dragondoor.com www.t-mag.com www.myodynamics.com Myodynamics, in particular, has some great articles by Charles Staley, who designed the Martial Arts Conditioning course for the I.S.S.A., which I'm studying. I know you said that:

But a closed-minded view like that will keep your training from reaching its potential. Best of luck.

 

Has anyone else noticed that whenever Noib finds himself facing heavy criticism he can't respond to, he says something like "You're childish, I refuse to even answer your questions." Can't rather than refuse I believe.

 

stop being a baby...

 

When you lift a weight, yes, there is some stress to the corresponding joints and muscles. But it is in response to this stress that the joints and muscles become stronger, and better able to deal with the stress. Similar to stretching; you stretch out, and your muscles get familiar with the new range of motion. The more you practice, the more accustomed they become. This is why it's important to design your routine incrementally, not starting with too much, too soon. That's when problems occur.

 

hyaline cartilage doesn't regenerate or "get stronger". Joints will heal if damaged, but they aren't stronger once they've healed... That's why people who damage joints or tendons have a greater chance of reinjuring them... Cartilage doesn't work the same way as muscle tissue...

 

I was under the impression that we weren't talking about somebody with a pre-existing injury. I was speaking of a healthy person performing squats, which will strengthen the majority of joints and muscles in the body. If we're talking about somebody who has had previous back injury, then yes, squats may be contraindictated. But for the healthy martial artist, with a clean bill of health, squats are very advisable.

 

I love it how every time he's replied, he has never addressed any point put to him. Ridiculous. If you didn't have that many posts and I hadn't seen you around before, I would have thought you were a troll. Maybe you are, but I don't think so. You're just narrow minded.

 

Thats the case with every thread he has ever started. ... Never really adresses the good points that are made, often skips to maybe the last three sentences of someones post and says "you dont know what youre talking about". Or something to that effect.

I dont know if tendons and stuff work like bones, but if you break your bones they heal stronger than they were initially. This is probably not the case once you reach a certain age, but for those of us that are somewhat young it is. And what about phenomena like people coming back stronger after Tommy John Surgury? (that may just be a wierd baseball fluke, tightning of tendons thing....)

 

dude, that's what I'm trying to tell you... they don't make your joints stronger... Joints aren't strengthened or conditioned by compression(which occurs in the instance of squats), they can be made more supple and durable through stretching them and NOT putting negative pressure on them...

 

So you're saying that someone who squats 200lbs has joints the same strength as someone who squats 1000? Sure seems like that. Also, stretching tendons and ligaments is a pretty risky business. I think I should know seeing as though I wrote a dissertation on flexibility training, before you come off saying that some chimp you know told you all this garbage you are spouting, and that they are obviously the be-all-end-all strength training authority.

 

See Adam you were wrong...I can do 1000 on squat by the end of the year. I'll just work out with Noib and I'll have that polished off easily by the end of the year.

Noib, it seems you have mastered an exercise that I aggressively push myself at. When you say squats are easy...I say sure, just load up some weight and push it up and down...in that case, all exercises are essentially easy.

I think you're missing something important--not whether squats or lunges are more important because one is easier than other but rather how doing both can greatly increase the efforts of lower body training.

 

Dude, you're not telling me anything, you repetitive, droning, flap-jawwing, has-to-avoid-my-questions-because-he-doesn't-have-any-real-answers-closed-minded-little-goofball. Geez Louise!! Okay, I'll say it flat out. If you're the kind of guy who gets off on annoying people, and saying what it takes to push their buttons, you win. I am sincerely frustrated in talking to you. Congratulations. Nice job. You've got talent. If you're not that kind of guy, then you are simply the most closed-minded person I've run across in a long while.

You continuously spout these supposable absolute truths, then when I try to question you a bit further, you dance around the issue at hand and the points I bring up. I am still waiting for you to tell me, flat out, why you believe so dearly that:

I brought this up, and you went into some rambling about cartilage not regenerating and tendons not healing fully. It makes me dizzy, but I'll give it one last shot.

If you can't step off your decidedly anti-squat pedestal for the 10 minutes it will take to read over these two articles, then our conversation is over.
www.drsquat.com/index.cfm?action=viewarticle&articleID=5
www.drsquat.com/index.cfm?action=viewarticle&articleID=23
That's the best I can come up with right now.

 

Lmao

 

Dear:

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[ ] Loser
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[X] Troll
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You Are Being Flamed Because

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In Punishment, You Must:

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The preceding Forum Form Flame was constructed for use on people not worthy
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I didn't check the bits with naughty words in

 

wow... dude... you just stooped to a huge low... Forget the disagreement, that was totally uncalled for man...

 

how so

 

Totally lost me too. I was thinking it was kinda nice of him not to use the profane parts.

 

your taking it way too personally(sp)

 

not really... in the context of the conversation and the interaction that transpired, dude was way out of line posting like that... really distracts from the thread, and it doesn't contribute anything... *shrugs*

For me to take it personally I'd have to meet him in person, and I doubt if we were speaking face to face he'd be such a wiseass...