Lunges...

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Noib Da Mutt, Aug 18, 2004.

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  1. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Man of few words - that's me. :Angel:

    Now go squat :D
     
  2. Mrs Owt

    Mrs Owt New Member

    I am so glad Capt Ann asked that question. I have been watching this thread and was having the same idea pop into my head.

    One thing though, I can't squat fully because of my knee. Will I still get benefit? Or should I find another exercise - I can do lunges. Is a partial squat better than a full lunge?

    Thanks.
     
  3. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Absolutely.

    If you can do a full lunge you can do a squat to 90 degrees. I'd check with a good sports physio about loading that knee with either though.
     
  4. Mrs Owt

    Mrs Owt New Member

    Thank you.:)

    And I suppose it is time to go in for a tune-up with my physio. I have been doing the same strengthening routine for my knee for a while now. Would be nice to see if I can take on some new stuff if he thinks it can handle it (look out Ferni - I'm snowboarding this Christmas!!!!!:D :p )
     
  5. Scarlet Mist

    Scarlet Mist Banned Banned

    If that's not a personal attack then spank my ass and call me a teddybear!

    Personally I never do that much leg work - maybe that's why my hanstring is acting weird. But when I do lunges I never weight them ... Instead I do a lot of horse stance work.
     
  6. Noib Da Mutt

    Noib Da Mutt Banned Banned

    as far as martial arts is concerned, lunges kill squats... Our aim is not to be big and bulky powerlifters... It's to have a combination of flexibility, strength, and quickness, which lunges aid far more in...



    um, to retort to this Adam individual...

    when you work out with weights, your muscles are broken down, and strength is gained by them building back up stronger than they were before... Anyone who's ever worked out seriously knows that after a really tough workout your muscles can have different degrees of soreness, depending on the intensity of your workout and how used to the activity your muscles are... This is why you typically get stronger from workouts that leave you more sore... your muscles are less use to the workout, or broken down more, and so that shock results in more strength...

    when I did my squats, I didn't touch the floor with my butt, but I went down a little lower than parrallel, maybe at a 3/4 or 3/5...


    but I have to reiterate for those interested in long-term health...


    SQUATS ARE BAD LONG-TERM FOR YOUR BACK!
     
  7. Wesker

    Wesker Professional Lurker

    Try squatting with dumbbells. It helps improve your balance and takes the pressure off your back.
     
  8. Colucci

    Colucci My buddies call me Chris.

    Where, oh where, oh where should I begin? ::clearing throat:: Ahemm :D

    I can agree that goals of flexibility, strength, and quickness (some would say speed, but whatever) are paramount for martial artists. Which is precisely why you need to build strength in a compound exercise like squats before progressing in your weight-training. It develops basic movement patterns, and conditions scores of essential muscles. I'd say that there may a greater possibility to develop flexibility with the lunge, versus a squat, simply because you are training unilaterally, and developing each limb on it's own. But for maximal strength, you need to squat, which helps to develop total body power, beginning at the feet, and continuing up to the neck.

    Regarding "this Adam individual"...Chester, I've seen more intelligent comments and training theories come from him than you could ever hope to contribute. You're not qualified enough to wash his squat suit, so drop the attitude.

    Actually, your muscles are broken down if you're training for hypertrophy. And size is gained when they rebuild. Intelligent training for strength does not break down muscle tissue nearly as much.


    You may have soreness after some workouts, if you're deconditioned and/or un-accustomed to the workout. Again, if you're training for strength, you should feel little muscular soreness. It sounds, again, like you're describing hypertrophy training. If you want to hurt after a workout, jump rope on pavement, wearing soccer cleats. Or you could train intelligently and seek results...not pain (paraphrased from Charles Staley).


    Here, you're perfectly describing weight-training for a beginner. Someone who has never touched weights before will experience more soreness from most of their workouts, because they're deconditioned. And they will have dramatic results quickly, as their muscles scramble to overcompensate to handle the new stress. However, this pleasant ease of results quickly drops off, after a few months, and the same theories do not apply to people familiar with the physical stress of weight training. Again, we need to judge our training on the results they provide, not on the degree of discomfort they leave us with. Pain and results are not necessarily bound together.


    Okay, quick English lesson...reiterate means to emphasize a statement again. I must have missed where you made this comment originally. In any case, my profession as a certified trainer (under "Dr. Squat" Fred Hatfield) will not let you get away with making such a blanket statement, without offering any support. You tell me why squats are bad for your back, and I'll tell you why you're misinformed. Oh, and please...QUIT YELLING COMMENTS WITHOUT SHOWING PROOF!! Thanks.
     
  9. Noib Da Mutt

    Noib Da Mutt Banned Banned

    reread the thread and see where I said it in the very first post...


    as for the rest...


    I gotta disagree, it has little to do with how accustomed you are to the workout, it may effect it slightly, but if you train to exhaustion, and push, your body will be tired, and it will be sore... Ask anyone who's ever played football, wrestled in high school, ran track, trained seriously for fighting, or pushed themselves at any other sport physically... Tired muscles=sore muscles... period. If you don't feel the workout, there is no point, so for all of the intelligence you've offered, some of your points are actually wrong... Training for strength DOES break down the muscles, not only for size... what do you think MUSCLE SIZE equates to anyways? Now it's true that you can train yourself in a way that helps you gain strength with minimal growth, but it still has the same effect on your muscles... You made the statement regarding muscle pain and ovecompensation in growth when new to a workout... Any intelligent athlete knows to continually change their workout for this exact reason, meaning that you always want your muscles to experience that shock... therefor, pain=strength... That pain is an indicator that you've broken down the muscle sufficiently... Muscle shock is important, increasing weight is not always what you want to do to grow effectively... that's why excercises like negatives are always so effective... because your body is always experiencing that shock...
     
  10. Poop-Loops

    Poop-Loops Banned Banned

    Yes, tired muscles = sore muscles. But you tire out muscles if you want to train for endurance, like all those sports you mentioned. Strenght and endurance have little to do with eachother. Go run 5 miles up hill. See how much more you can squat after you do that.

    I dunno about you, but I'd rather hang from a half inch thick metal cable, than a half inch thick rope. Size =/= strength always. If your muscles are compact and dense (look at Bruce Lee), they can still be strong.

    Anyway, I don't see you with a degree, so why are you even argueing?

    PL
     
  11. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    sorry to be a pain, but strength training BY DEFINITION causes soreness.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2004
  12. Bruce_Wee

    Bruce_Wee New Member

    squats = full body exercise = builds maximal functional strength = has very good application in martial arts = let you use high intensity = king of all exercise
    there is a saying that if one was to pick ONE exercise only, do squats.

    squats are the hardest mate.
     
  13. wcrevdonner

    wcrevdonner Valued Member

    I don't know much about them, but wouldn't squatting with weights do damage to your back?

    I've no real reason to think this apart from thinking that it puts excess strain on your back? Please educate as to why squats don't hurt you.
     
  14. Scarlet Mist

    Scarlet Mist Banned Banned

    Hey, I have a question. About how much weight should a beginning squatter like me use to start off?

    By the way, I see you guys have been drinking your Haterade.
     
  15. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter


    Start with bodyweight to get the mechanics right, then go onto using just the bar. Then add more weight and experiment to see how far you can go. Like with any new exercise, be conservative.


    Thank you very much! However, after this post I won't be stating any more opinions to this fool (yes, I said fool, personal attack, whoop-de-doo - it's warranted because he is actually fooling himself in thinking he knows more than a badger about training).

    Noib da mutt - Basically mate, you have no clue. Try reading up around the forums on strength training. There are plenty of comments from very qualified people like BeWater and Yoda which explain why you are so wrong about the majority of things you said eg. you seem to advocate training to failure in your strength workout to get sore because you have to get sore for results. Why do you think powerlifters can lift almost every day, sometimes numerous times a day at close to maximum intensity? It's because they don't train to failure and shock-horror - they are the strongest people in the world. Why do you think that most aren't very muscular compared to big bodybuilders yet they are stronger? Training of the nervous system. Know anything about that? It's not only the muscles, it's your nervous system that you train when you work out. More motor units fire more efficiently so you get stronger. Synaptic facilitation training? No? If you had a clue about exercise physiology you would know this. It's very simple. A martial artist training for strength should use failure as a tool, not every workout. Training to failure every time leads to overtraining, less strength gains overall, and possible interruption of MA training due to soreness. More here:

    http://www.myodynamics.com/articles/failure.html


    And this is true just because your uncle or someone says so? Is he more educated than this guy?

    http://www.cbass.com/Squats.htm

    Squatting properly for 50 years and no bad back? Wow, it must be a miracle :eek:

    Lose the ignorance and high-and-mighty attitude, and you might actually learn something around here. Oh wait, I forgot, you already know it all.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2004
  16. Scarlet Mist

    Scarlet Mist Banned Banned

    Then the Bar goes behind the neck, just before the back? How low do I start going? How much do I lean forward (bend my back)?
     
  17. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter

  18. Wesker

    Wesker Professional Lurker

    I remember reading somewhere that by squatting into a sitting position on a bench, you put undue pressure on your back. Any truth to that?
     
  19. Noib Da Mutt

    Noib Da Mutt Banned Banned

    Adam, you're sad dude, you can't even disagree without acting like a child, I won't even entertain any more of your posts dude...


    Unlike alot of people I do what works for me... I don't need to ask people on the internet what works when I've got people in real life that know what they're talking about giving me advice...

    squats in addition to compressing your back, only work your gluts and quads... Lunges work the gluts, quads, hams, and hips...
    when doing a squat properly your whole body should not be involved because your are trying to isolate the lower body, it is not a full body excercise, if any of your upper body is involved then they are being performed wrong... And once more... martial artists aren't training to power lift...


    besides, power lifters DO WORK TO FAILURE... you know nothing about power lifters if you're saying they dont... I know a few and worked out in the gym with them, they push harder than anyone in there, and they don't lift weights all day if they're smart... Your body only produces growth hormones for 45 minutes at a time, anybody knowledgable of weight training knows this and plans their workout accordingly... They get the energy more from what they consume than from the way they workout, creatine is an amazing energy booster, as well as high protein diets...

    muscle growth is acquired when you work towards that failure, not do what your muscles can already perform... sissies train that way because they're afraid to push... I think Adam is probably one of those type of guys...
     
  20. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter

    Where did I act like a child? How old are you by the way?

    As you have been asked a zillion times, where is your proof for the statements about squats? YOU HAVE NONE BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ANY.

    Someone else pick apart this ridiculous post for me, I'm going training. I can't believe how much garbage was just stated.

    Ah well, they do say ignorance is bliss.
     
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