ps. I don't want it to be bs, I want it to be genuine. I want to know if people genuinely can explore this ability and phenomena. Can we do such things or not? I am interested in energy, certainly. However if your claims are honest and real then what problem should there be in demonstrating them to be so? I don't demand you 'prove' anything to me - you don't have to. But you make the claims, you provide the theory. Who's trying to prove what to who here really anyway ? Despite what you say I think you are invested in somehow showing that what you do is not total nonsense. I can be open minded, if you are prepared to meet me half way, and have something demonstrated on me that will make be a believer - I want that, I really do. I want the true exerience, I truly want to experience this. If your teacher is the real deal then why can't he do it to another run of the mill tai chi guy ?
Hey redkite. Yeah ive only just made the profile so its empty Sorry I'm a bit confused about what information you want? Do you want the details of my training with LNG or training in general in whatever martial arts ive practiced and for how long etc? I'll post both briefly just in case. I started with wado ryu karate for 1 year and at the same time private tuition in wing chun. But moving cities forced me to change. So i tried tae kwon do again (i did it when i was younger) but only lasted a few months (it didnt compare to my karate and kung fu teaching) and at the same time was learning southern praying mantis from someone i met. It was during this that i found LNG, and almost straight away i felt like i had finally found what i was looking for. I stopped the praying mantis to dedicate myself to taiji as i had become too hard from the kung fu. So i've been with LNG for about 3 years now. And for the first year i trained completely obsessively. I quit my job to train more and i had no commitments. I was training about 4 hours a day, and as damo and i lived fairly close he would come to the park and help me out. So i probably have trained for as long as most of you but i have worked very hard. Just a quick note on damo and lng too...As i know damo, i can vouch for him (although im aware you have no reason to trust me either lol) and i can tell you that if you met him and approached lng's training with an open mind i'm sure most of you would see that he is completely down to earth, very honest (although that would obviously depend on your judgement) and very knowledgable. His life's circumstances has allowed him to literally dedicate every part of himself and his entire life since he was little to seeking the true martial arts, separating fact from fiction, with very lucky connections from tibet, china, taiwan etc. I hope this clears it up for you redkite
thanks it kinda does I guess. I think I might like to meet Damo and feel this rotating dan tien for myself.
p.s i forgot to say that all the controversy aside, LNG is very meticulous about the taiji that is taught. Damo's mission is to teach to a very high standard and create martial artists of the same calibre. It focuses MASSIVELY on body mechanics, softness, strength, applications (which i've already mentioned are not my strong point, but i am going to rectify that once i'm happy that my foundation in energy work is strong enough to branch out). I think anyone who went to somerset wouldn't be disappointed, that is if they didnt get freaked out but the weird stuff lol
sorry cloudz that response about not wanting to prove anything. It was to the person who said it was all bs and im being taken for a fool. If someone is so adamant not to believe then i wont waste energy. But you arent so close minded and if you want to explore it, whether you are sceptical or not, i'd be more than happy to help with any information.
You talked about sharing method with others and that's why you came on. I only really got theory coming through though in your initial post. Can you elaborate on the kind of method you used to acheive the rotating dan tien then ? How does it differ for example from other qi gong/ nei gong methods ? If you'd rather not get into it on here then no bother, just thought I'd ask. cheers
Well it was adressed to me and I wrote some stuff like that in my reply that you quotes. But nothing to be sorry about. I really appreciate and respect your efforts here. Yes I am sceptical. What I described as 'typical bs' is the resoning and the 'excuses' to why it woouldn't work on normal people ot other tai chi people or whomever. I do think I can be sceptical and open minded at the same time though. I think there is a fair chance that this stuff works for you not because it is real for everyone - but real for you. That just me being honest. I do though still leave the door open to the chance your teacher has these skills for real. Now if only he could demonstrate them to those not already invested in (his) specific methodologies already. Got to get off now. cheers
ah the method. Hmm well, of course i want to help share the knowledge. I am a bit reluctant however, only because i promised damo i wouldnt try to teach anyone yet, the reason being is that frankly, working with the dan tien can be dangerous. It is the fire method we use. Most people are more familiar with the water method, which im not sure what it involves as i havent trained in it!. The reason why it can be dangerous is as follows; the resulting spontaneous movement moves the stagnant qi and pathogens in the body. If a person doesnt develop the required focus (through the martial aspect) to control the qi and expel the negative energy (binqi) from the body, it can cause problems. Imagine a rusty pipe. If you flush water through it, the rust will be pumped around the system. Another reason is that if the breathing isnt done correctly, too forcefully for example, it can cause long term problems. (dragon sickness is a common qi gong illness. Unfortunately it does take many years to develop, around 30-40, which is why evidence of it is only starting to emerge now, as qi gong became popular in the west about 40 years ago). It can also cause emotional problems. I wont go into that because its a whole other topic. And finally when the movements are so strong, there are rare occasions where it literally cannot be stopped (this has happened to me once, it is related to emotions) and a teacher must know what to do in this instance. Another time i had such a strong jerk that something happened in my body, felt like a lung puncture, but wasnt. Whenever i pushed energy passed my torso in qi gong, it hurt so badly that i was quite worried. I couldnt train for a fortnight and the pain came back for a few days a few months later. THankfully it hasnt come back since. These can be avoided though. Having said all that, i will say that the method involves certain postures and breathing techniques. I would be more than happy to say more, but i have a responsibility to share knowledge with safety in mind. I would suggest trying to get to one of damos weekly classes or going to a course. I think he is away in asia for the last 6 months of this year though but there will be courses early next year. Sorry i cant say more cloudz but i hope it gives you some idea.
Ah i see. Hmm...i fear then that we will just have to agree to disagree. If my explanation of why it wouldnt work on someone who doesn't do this method doesnt sway you then i'm not sure what else will. You say (his) method, but you must realise that he didnt invent this. This method is as ancient as it comes. He was taught this by a tibetan monk which i wont name here without damo's permission, and one can find it in the taoist classics. THe problem there is politics and history often required the taoist sages to write in metaphors. As a result all the methods are grossly misunderstood. For example chinese masters by tradition didnt teach all the secrets to their students, maybe to the one that would take over. They used to, and still do apparently, like to be very secretive. Also chinese students dont ask questions, probably because they know they wont get an answer they will understand. This coupled with the turbulent history of china and its wars means that alot of information was lost. A lot of the masters in this method were killed in the second world war. I think only a handful managed to flee to taiwan and the west. This is the reason why damo is teaching the way he does. He wants to teach it so people can reach a level that used to be achievable and to keep the art alive. If you experience his classes or courses you will find he is very open with his knowledge. So I think i've said all I can. If you still want to see it work on other tai chi practioners then i'm afraid you will miss out on some incredible experiences. But if you can on the other hand, just suspend your scepticism for a few months and try these methods, then i personally dont think you'll be disappointed. (and then you can help me defend it on forums cos this takes alot of work lol) Anyway I hope i was helpful, if not convincing and thanks for being open minded. There's nothing more frustrating than people who just slate without trying at least to ask some questions. See ya later!
Dragon sickness is when, after prolonged incorrect training, people accumulate stagnant qi in the head. Qi rises to the head in qi gong and nei gong, and there are exercises to disperse it and clear it away. Dragon sickness results in anger problems, or funnily enough, the complete opposite and people become completely...what's the word...glazed over. They have a kind of blank but happy expression. It may sound appealing to some of you but personally i'd rather be focused
Thanks for the info! I practised a fire method for about 2-3 years at one point. And funny enough I did have some qi stuck in the head and anger issues for a while after deliberately unbalancing the training, but I learned a lot from it and got over it ok.... I think.. grrrrr joking If you want some good info on the fire method, mostly written in metaphors though, as you may expect. Check out this book: The Taoist "I Ching": Amazon.co.uk: Liu I-ming: Books http://www.shambhala.com/html/catalog/items/isbn/978-1-59030-260-6.cfm Its pretty much like a manual. Its basically the I Ching interpreted by a monk from the School of Complete Reality. Definitely worth a read if your in to the fire stuff.
Agreed! On the first vid,I don't like it. But if that is their way of training,so be it. On that last push hands clip with the girl. I thought it was good. It showed good listening skills.
Yes! You want to be a open vessel. We do some push hands stuff like that Where there is intentional compliance so the sifu can unblock the blockages in the body. He uses push hands to find those area's.
I never heard it called that. but yes you are right. You had some very good posts. They are very much in line of the types of things my sifu does. Thanks for jumping into this unfortunate thread.
Damo did that too lol. I cant remember what it was exactly that he did but I remember he told me he did something that caused him a bit of problems, too understand it better. Took him quite a long to fully recover but he understood it better also And yeah Thomas Cleary is an excellent source. LNG follows the teachings of the complete reality school too.Can anyone tell me how to quote 2 different posts in my reply? Weiliquan - no worries, it's just a shame when things get needlessly heated like that.
DB, I am conversant with the above.... It was the first half I was questioning (QG and TJQ), but didn't want to crop so much off as to make it make no sense. Failed, lol, so have gone to stand in the corner.
Ah, I see - my mistake! I would have said that Taiji does not necessarily require additional qigong, as it can be such in itself.
Of course Taiji is an extremely complex study in itself, though in my opinion without the aid of qigong is very much a waste. Like i've said before, you can learn the martial side of taiji and become a very proficient fighter, or just do it for health reasons (although someone just doing it for health reasons would want to do qigong too). But it is SOOO much more than that. Taiji, together with Baguaquan, and Xing Yi are the three main internal martial arts of china. Qi gong is the foundation of these, to strengthen your energy body to be proficient in any of these arts. Learning Taiji without qigong is a terrible waste. Remember Taiji is a taoist art, and taoism is a path to enlightenment. The origins of taiji, (although there are so many claims) are likely to come from Chang San Feng. He took the Nan Pai standing postures (designed to induce spontaneous movement) and linked them together to create a form. Qi gong cleanses your energy body, opens your meridians, and after much practice (along side with nei gong, martial arts and meditation) bring the emotions into balance. The 5 thieves (the senses) no longer cloud you, and the 5 negative emotions linked with the the 5 elements (wu hsing) become the 5 virtues. Anger turns to patience, fear to clarity etc....this is when the person is ready to dedicate their life to the pratice of internal alchemy (taoist meditation) to reach enlightenment. Obviously this is the taoist arts when a person is able to dedicate their life to it. Leaving society is a must at the later stages, indeed there are monks in Mt Wudan doing exactly this and if you believe with the taoist immortals wrote, then apparently this process spans several lifetimes (taoism believes in reincarnation). I think i've gone off topic here a bit but i'm just trying to show that taiji is not merely a martial art. It is the way (the tao). Taiji is the name of what caused creation in the taoist version of the big bang. Thus, taiji really should be practiced with qi gong, and then later internal alchemy
I would have said it was Neigong. In your opinion... And, like I said - Taiji is a form of qigong in itself. Again, in your opinion. Taiji can be practiced without qigong or internal alchemy. It can be practiced with these things, but it is not necessary and not including these things takes nothing away from Taijiquan.
