Discussion in 'Weapons' started by monkeywrench, Aug 29, 2011.
Nice trollfail there bro...
Yes Monkeywrench you are right it's not you at all it's everyone else.
Good luck in your training, I don't see much point in carrying on here.
No it was accurate
All throughout this thread you keep crapping on about insults yet i cannot find one that qualifies
You made a big deal about the "so called Masters" reference, yet it is accurate - what has been shown is absolute garbage
And insult is "You are an idiot" or "your mother sucks jelly babies in hell" - a directed attack launched at an individual for it's own ends rather than for another purpose.
If I say "you post LIKE an idiot" that is technically not an insult either (although that could be up for debate if pushed)
So yes there is a break down in communication...all from your end
And there's me thinking he was an English major yet he has trouble understanding structure and meaning of it?
And to think I almost missed this epic posting! haha
Thank you Chris for all your analysis and insight. Without responding to each point I will say that your observations about the self-defense demos are valid for the most part. I have had discussions with other MAP members in the past about the "aliveness" of our demos. I will say I am personally not worried about the level myself. As I said before, there are already injuries just in demo practice. To make it more alive would basically guarantee more injury. This is the main reason. That said, yes there is room for improvement and for myself I am taking notes with the goal of improvement in mind.
I did want to say something about the "softening" effect that CN has. Yes, it is there and we are aware of it just as you describe. That is precisely why at my school in particular (I can't comment on other schools...) we do "basics" all the time. So that we don't lose touch with our "hard" roots, if you will. This is something we are stressing right now in fact. So...yeah.
I do disagree with your interpretation of our bunkai approach somewhat. The situations in which many of these katas were created don't apply anymore, but we still work the katas. And we adjust the bunkai to reflect more modern situations. Having said that, we do realize why they were created and don't seek to insult the Masters that brought them into being.
Thanks again for the post Chris.
I've trained at a school that had pretty shallow methods overall when I was younger. That's one reason why I have realized that what I'm learning now is sound...at least for my purposes as you say. Master Robert (just as an example) was a boxing trainer under Angelo Dundee in the 80s. He (and Master Elizabeth) trained extensively under Ernie Cates for years as I mentioned before. I know he has personally cross-trained quite a bit in several arts over the years.
I've also trained Judo (just for a few months sadly) under Sensei Doug Fortune who was a great coach. So I've had good training and "sub-optimal" training and can tell the difference.
So I take your comments seriously and I have taken a serious look at what my instructors teach and how they teach it. And I am more than satisfied. Does that mean there is no room for improvement? I think they would themselves agree there is always room for improvement.
That said, I too have been to seminars such as MMA/grappling very recently to fill in some of the gaps CN has. So again, your point is well taken. Our annual training camps (which is where I took the seminars) offer classes/seminars in MMA, sword and other arts with folks teaching that are specifically trained in those areas that also practice CN. The guy that taught the MMA class is training fighters now and has been doing Jiu Jitsu since childhood. He also has inherited a sword art (the name escapes me right now...something sounding like Kenjutsu maybe?) and is the Soke of it. A well rounded guy!
I hope this gives you a bit of perspective on my training and the view of CN overall. And thank you for the post. Very refreshing.
I direct you all to my post where I quoted the MAP TOS.
Are we following it or are we not? The TOS in item 1.1 doesn't even go so far as to address insults..it simply says there should be a friendly exchange.
And that's not what I'm seeing in this thread. It is clear who is taking the core principle of MAP seriously here and who isn't.
And I'll highlight once again, it isn't about technique commentary. I just roundly thanked Chris for his criticism...and it was firm and direct and SPECIFIC. His is an example of how to post. Pay attention folks.
*puts his feet up and opens a can*
Sword art a? Soke you say?
All yours Chris
I spoke too quickly! A thousand pardons.
Here's the site:
Incidentally, it is taught at the CN World Headquarters. I'll be heading there this December if all goes well to test. Great bunch of folks there.
(looks like we simul-posted here...did you see mine #206 with regard to the TOS?)
Not a problem. However, "aliveness" was not really what I was addressing, mainly as that is a training approach, not a demonstration trait, so I'd be expecting to see less "aliveness" (as the MMA/BJJ/Matt Thornton crowd use the term... to be frank, I'm not impressed with their arguments much, not that aliveness isn't a very good thing to have, it's more in the complete lack of understanding of the methods they denigrate.. but that's another argument altogether!), what I was getting at was more realism in the types of attacks and defences (as a start). From there you get into aspects of understanding the psychology, and knowledge of the legal system, and so on; without that, it's not a self defence system, it's more a way of showing off a range of unrelated and unrealistic physical responces, regardless of their applicability.
With the bunkai approach, my comment was more general, and includes a number of karate systems desire to "reinterpret" the kata as well, not just the way you approach it.
Ha, no need at present, I think... Monkeywrench, I'd suggest re-reading the Modern Hojutsu thread on that subject. But I will say that, adding to Paul's story, there are quite a few people who have been sold something without really knowing what it is... for example, I could mention a system going by the name of "Kempo Niten Ryu"....
That is SUBJECTIVE and consequently open to debate until the cows come home
I consider it friendly, you don't - impasse and impossible to resolve. What YOU specifcally addressed earlier was insults - which STILL don't exist
I saw your post but you're not a mod and I feel how I interact on the forum fits within the ToS nicely.
Until I'm told otherwise by a mod or admin I will continue in the same manner, don't like it then report my posts.
Since I mentioned the CN Training Camp above, I thought I'd include this:
The schedule of classes for this year.
It popped up in the search for Jason Backlund.
Oh dear freakin' lord! Steer well away from that who-knows-what immediately! There are so many red flags there that you'd think it was the only colour material at the flag-store!!!
Every search for Yamagata Ryu (and an apparently related Matsubara Ryu) lead to this Jason Backlund telling a story about the history of each, with some odd terminology (Yari no Kata, for instance) and no other backup whatsoever. He was asked as he claims that his system teaches Nagamaki, which is a rare weapon in and of itself, with Araki Ryu and Toda-ha Buko Ryu being some of the only ones left teaching it. Big red flags, treat with absolute caution.
"You're not the teacher so I'll say what I want."
Carry on...nothing to see here. There are not the droids you are looking for.
ETA: Why not write him with questions? He's on Facebook. I asked him a couple things earlier this year and he got back to me.
Point out where I have said something that is so out of order?
As has already been pointed out it is only your opinion of the ToS nothing more.
If you have a problem then report my posts, it's really very simple.
I'm not going to dance around a subject just in case I upset your overly sensitive nature. If I were to out and out insult you then I would offer an apology just as I would if there was a misunderstanding.
As it is all we have is you trying to control the debate by moaning about certain people's posting style and posting the ToS.
If it is such a problem then report it, otherwise stop yer whinge bagging.
To his credit, he does make the point that Yamagata Ryu is a modern created system, although the terminology used is a little out of place, and the question would be what basis it has, as it's primary source seems to be the unheard of Matsubara Ryu and Yamagata and Jason's own play, trying things out, and seeing what they come up with.
Another mention, four years earlier, states that Jason was a 6th Dan in Yamagata Ryu, which consists of Karate, Aikido, Jujutsu, Kenjutsu, and other arts (?). http://www.dragonnhus.com/article.php?article=262
As an aside, it was things like mentioning that Batto was done paired, and with Shinken in the link you provided that initially set off so many alarm bells.
So it's yet another made up sword system with no basis in reality or history?
Well there's a surprise. :bang:
I remember him. Very nice fellow. Very odd ideas. Said he was rokudan renshi when I had discussions with him, he was 21 at the time. Evidently he's inherited the school that he's teaching. Of course, he's the only one that has ever heard of his particular school, or his particular instructor. Seems to fit in quite nicely with the rest of the school that you're learning.
As I said before, if you are happy with what you're doing, then be happy. However, don't expect to find acceptance within the greater martial arts community.
Good luck with whatever you decide to pursue.
Separate names with a comma.