London worse than New York now?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Anjelica, Apr 2, 2018.

  1. Anjelica

    Anjelica Banned Banned

  2. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Its by 1 death. However the Police numbers in London are significantly lower than that of NYC.

    Its not stricter knife and gun laws needed, its the result of cuts and funding.
     
    EdiSco, Hannibal, Dead_pool and 2 others like this.
  3. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    The emergency service cuts have been ridiculous, it's a shame that it keeps going on :(

    But yes, by 1, I'm sure that'll change quick enough.

    No surprise it's the daily mail, they love a good scare mongering story. You'll probably like the express also, similar stories and lots of anti immigration stories.
     
    Monkey_Magic, Dan93, Hannibal and 3 others like this.
  4. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    New York's murder rate is at the lowest levels since the 1950's, and even though both cities have similar population sizes, the density isn't comparable. London is spread out like LA is, so, I think it's a stretch to say that this is a new phenomenon for London. NYC is safer than it has been in generations due to the heavy police presence especially since 9/11 and Rudy Giuliani's downtown cleanup. The worst crime in NYC now happens in the fringes of the city or traditionally run down areas in the Bronx, etc.. Murders are very rare in the heavily populated, well policed sections of the city. NYC is down to around 300 or 400 killings in a year...that's not bad for a city of almost 9 million people crammed together. By comparison, New Orleans, St. Louis, Detroit, and Baltimore, etc. are killing fields.

    2017 was record-low for homicides in New York City
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
    Dead_pool, SaintDomingo and axelb like this.
  5. SaintDomingo

    SaintDomingo Valued Member

    Is NYC not one of the safest cities in the US with one of the strictest gun laws?
     
    Mushroom, Hannibal, Dead_pool and 2 others like this.
  6. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    I don't know the exact stats, but you're definitely more likely to get hit with a car in NYC than shot. Even seeing a gun in NYC on anyone but an officer is super rare and typically associated with organized crime and gang activity. There is still plenty of violent crime but it tends to be of the non-lethal variety. Assaults with everything but firearms are still common throughout the city. I know a lot of people who carry knives for self defense, more so than before the "stop and frisk" program toned down a lot. Back in the heyday of stop and frisk, police could easily stop half a million people a year and would confiscate whatever they found that looked remotely dangerous, especially from young minorities. Nowadays its a lot harder to justify a stop and frisk and so the number per year has fallen to 10% of what it used to be and amazingly, the crime rate hasn't really been affected at all and the murder rate is the lowest in generations.
     
    Dead_pool likes this.
  7. Anwolf

    Anwolf Valued Member

    It was also only for one month, not exactly long enough to see if the trend will continue. I go out in London all the time, often staying out late, and I've never felt in any danger even in some of the rougher areas.
     
    Dead_pool likes this.
  8. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Single data points can often be statistical blips, what's important is the long term trend.

    Also if your using this as a comparison of country vs country you should just do that, as city vs city will obviously be misleading.
     
    axelb and Latikos like this.
  9. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    Pretty much this.

    I don't know how it is now and I also can't be bothered to look it up, because the lack argumentation from the OP really doesn't make me want to, but there at least was a time, when Berlin had a higher crime rate the New York (%-wise).
    Doesn't make the country as a whole unsafe.
     
    axelb likes this.
  10. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    When I was in NYC, I bumped into a copper literally in every corner.
    Also some empty Police cars parked up in the corner of roads. Which iirc was an old tactic to make it look like Police are in the area (cardboard cutout policing).
    It didnt make me feel "safer" but for other tourists, it's an indicator that there's the feel of being protected.

    Compare that to London when you have an anti Police Home Secretary (now Prime Minister) from 9yrs ago pretty much prohibiting Police from doing stop and searches and also slashing funding of close to a Billion £, unless you're in Central London you won't see many around.

    (Not saying that you definately won't see Police about)

    Hopefully it is just the one day though. But things definately need changing.
     
    axelb likes this.
  11. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    I recall the same going to NYC over 10 years ago, so many police in comparison to what we had even then.
    Now it feels like where's Wally (waldo) if you find a copper, they have so much workload that they have had to delegate certain criminal offences to the council, and load of to PCSO a lot of work.
    over a year ago I was regularly being threatened with violence not far from my house whilst I was with my children, the police station is a 5 minute drive, yet it took 30 minutes after I called the police.
    The investigation was clearly not a priority, and eventually I "resolved" the situation myself.
    I hope it changes soon, but even with so few police our crime rate isn't as bad. I know people in the police force, it's an awful situation they have been put in.
     
    Mushroom likes this.
  12. Anjelica

    Anjelica Banned Banned

    Chicago has some of the strictest guns laws and their murder rate is among the worst.
     
  13. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    That wasn't what he asked.
    The truth behind the claim that London's murder rate is now higher than New York's


    "
    SO IS IT REALLY TRUE THAT LONDON’S MURDER RATE IS NOW HIGHER THAN NEW YORK’S?
    Yes, but only if you look at the last two months – which some commentators think is way too short a time frame.

    The Metropolitan Police has confirmed that it recorded 15 murders in February, while in the same month the New York Police Department (NYPD) recorded 11 killings.

    In March London also had more murders, albeit by a very slim margin: 22 to New York’s 21.

    But as soon as you start to look beyond the relatively narrow confines of those two months, the statistics start to come out in London’s favour.

    The Met says there were 8 murders in London in January, which compares with 18 killings in New York during the first month of the year.

    Taking into account two murders that have occurred in London in April, so far in London there have been 47 murders in London, compared to the higher running total of 50 in New York.

    SO WERE FEBRUARY AND MARCH 2018 JUST BLIPS?
    Possibly. While those two months may have been the first times in recent history that London had a higher homicide rate than New York, the year-on-year statistics are still firmly suggestive of the UK capital being the less murderous city.

    There were 116 murders in London in 2017, fewer than half New York’s annual total of 290.

    The disparity seems even more marked if you look slightly further back, albeit with the caveat that the way the Met presented its data for these years does not allow comparison of exactly the same 12-month time periods.

    In the calendar year of 2016 there were 334 murders in New York. In the financial year 2016-17 (1 April 2016 to 31 March 2017) there were 102 murders in London, suggesting – but not proving - that at that point the UK’s capital’s murder rate for any given 12-month period was less than a third of New York’s.

    Similarly, New York had 352 murders in the calendar year 2015, while London’s Metropolitan Police recorded 109 homicides between 1 April 2015 and 31 March 2016.

    When reporting on The Sunday Timesstory, The Independent noted that London remains substantially the safer city overall."


    Interestingly per person London is still safer then Chicago and New York.
     
    Hannibal and axelb like this.
  14. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    So the daily mail took a refined small sample of the overall picture to instill fear into readers.
    I would never have expected it of such an upstanding factually accurate paper for "news"*

    *for the sake of the internet, this statement is sarcasm
     
    Dan93, SWC Sifu Ben, Hannibal and 2 others like this.
  15. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.


    However it gained a lot of traction, some share happy people on my facebook feed and even some random insta accounts have also posted the same headline.
     
    Dead_pool, Hannibal and axelb like this.
  16. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    That's because Chicago is full of illegal weapons that flood in from the rest of the Midwest. It turns out gun laws only go so far...geographically speaking. There are more guns in the US than people. It's not hard to see how they move between cities and states no matter what. The murder rate in Chicago seems about right for a city its size...but the proliferation of guns from without is a major accelerant, is it not?
     
    Southpaw535, axelb and Dead_pool like this.
  17. Anjelica

    Anjelica Banned Banned

    I was under the impression the UK was a socialist utopia with no violence. Guess I was misinformed.
     
  18. Anwolf

    Anwolf Valued Member

    Who on earth claimed the UK is a socialist utopia with no violence? That's wrong on three counts. Although I suppose the idea of free healthcare and a welfare system may seem like a utopia compared to America.
     
    Frodocious, axelb and Dead_pool like this.
  19. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award


    Did you not read my post, London is far safer then comparable cities in the US, with a murder rate of only a third of New York.
     
  20. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    Who needs facts when you have alternative facts, right?
     

Share This Page