So who's stopping you? LOL And despite Silentmonk's constant attempts to derail this thread (j/k monk), he did make a formal apology for doing so (in post #36). But as he was pointing out the thread drift to Pugil in a subsequent statement there, it's easy to read back to post #35 & #34, and see both Pugil & myself at least tried to redirect the discussion to a more *appropriate* thread (although the topic you want to discuss has progressed several pages beyond this in that other thread, and why I'm making my reply here instead ). Despite the KSW textbook vol. 2 depicting Ssahng Soo #11 as stepping straight in after pivoting, thus making it VERY similar to KBS #6, I originally learned it using the alternate stepping you mentioned for KBS #6. So I tend to think of that way of applying the armbar (i.e. using that particular stepping and angle) not as a variation of KBS #6, but rather as Ssahng Soo #11 (even though I later had to modify the way I teach it to *match* the textbook). Given that many people aren't as familiar with some of the ways that stuff used to be taught, I can easily understand the pleas that insist KSW has been *watered down*. I wanted to sum up this post with a challenge of sorts, but first I feel as though I should direct your attention elsewhere to be perfectly fair. Ergo, looky here and take note of the second quote in the linked post. Once you have read that you should realize that I believe KBS #1 to be a bit more complex than the way it's usually presented to a beginner (one needs to take into account and establish not only proper joint angle, but the timing of certain movements, etc.). So here's the challenge: I dare you to hit me with your free hand whilst I perform KBS #1 on you. :evil: Here's a hint for you: You had better be really good with your nak-bup because while you're trying to hit me, you're going to find that even though you might be able to land your fist somewhere on my body (and due to my pivot it would not be capable of sufficient penetration to do much damage), it will only be a split-second later that you find yourself impacting the ground (or with a dislocated joint if failing to let the torque ripple through your body, thus allowing it to disrupt your balance - you know, the *flippy* stuff that Pugil thinks is too showy in KSW demos).
I did go to the thread you linked to but found that it is now discussing forms! LOL As for your challenge...maybe we can try it out in canada next year..after the tournament of course! If you are allowed to use full force on the technique, I assume I am allowed to use the same on my counter! (Which may not involve hitting you at all):lowblow::fight2::vanish::hammer::kick::thinking::jawdrop::wow::jester:
Speed doesn't matter (BTW, I referenced TIMING, not speed). Nor will I need to crank the technique, risking damage to your joints - just smooth, controlled yet PERFECT technique is all I require (you will be free to use whatever amount of force you want, however). FWIW, you may also find that trying to grab me with your free hand instead of hitting me with it, will be just as challenging (again, even going slowly). And I'd be only too happy to show you in August (after all, we will be in the same room for a change, right?).
The problem I have when using KBS #1, or any technique that has you pivot under the opponents arm, is that when your opponent feels what you are doing they can make it extremely difficult to get that pivot under thier arm. I have only tried it in a standing grappling situation where both partners are trying to use controll (so we don't rip our joints apart if we get something). Often when attempting KBS #1 you will feel your partner pull thier arm in and "sink thier weight" into it making it hard to get under it. I have been successfull with it on occasion and what seems to help is: 1. off balancing your opponent first. Push, pull, trip etc before going for the technique. 2. use misdirection. try to get them to think you are going for a different technique before committing to that one. 3. get a real good angle in thier wrist (Kwan jul ki #2) to get them to move in a way to give you an opening to move under thier arm. of course none of this works 100% of the time and of course we should never expect any technique to work 100% of the time.
How very true! But let me make a suggestion... Performing the pivot under the arm as a *standing* maneuver is a corruption of the way the technique is meant to be carried out (most likely due to beginners not knowing how to fall and from more advanced students *skipping* the final portion of the technique in order to circumvent having to fall). The pivot should actually be done so that you drop to one knee. Doing it this way should almost always work, even if they tighten and retract their arm. Actually, if they bend the arm and pull in with their elbow as you follow through with the technique, they will be in danger of joint damage, especially if not proficient with how to execute a HIGH rolling fall in the air (which is done not to be "flippy" but as an alternative to protect the joints). Have fun trying this out (but continue to embrace the same safety standards )!
don't try to go under their arm....go under your arm / elbow, I hope you understand what I'm getting at this works for me on all the twisting under teq.
So how is this challenge starting out? In proper stances, or making it more difficult ( and interesting) by allowing SBN to strike as the wrist grab is attempted. Please video tape this if it does happen
I suppose it could work from a randori POV, herbo, but if you read my post (#41) carefully it clearly states that I dare KIWEST to hit me with his free hand whilst doing KBS #1 on him. This presumes that I have initiated the technique, even if not from the prescribed stances in which it's normally practiced (so one of his hands should be under my control). And even though the challenge was to HIT me, I doubt he would be able to offer much counteraction by grabbing me instead, i.e. provided I failed to affect his balance the way that the technique is designed to do (which makes the free hand pretty much useless). I note the smiley, and take this as a joke in order to reveal my identity. :woo: Who knows, herbo, maybe by next summer I'll be ready to become more transparent. :yeleyes:
Is Kiwest going to be warned when you try this? Or is the intention to spring it on him unannounced? As he doesn't know you there is a danger that either he lets someone else take him down - or else he (in the fashion of the 1974 British Lions) may get the wrong person and "gets his retaliation in first"
O.K. :bang: I think some people are getting bent out of shape due to the word "challenge." But trust me, KIWEST and I have nothing but the UTMOST respect for one another (if you don't believe me, just PM him and ask!). I was merely emphasizing my POV when addressing something he saw as a possible flaw with the technique in question. So please refrain from "acting in his defence" or "coming to his rescue" as it's totally unwarranted, I can assure you. (sheesh!)
it wasn't the word "challenge", more the word "dare" which to anyone over here has a certain ring of "try it and you're ****ed" about it. Unless of course you're offering the challenge to Dan Dare
I'm still lost, as those two words go hand-in-hand as far as I'm concerned. BTW, I call your DAN DARE and raise you a CAPTAIN AMERICA.
I'm sure we could do this all day and REALLY drag this thread off-topic. I give you: The Red Skull :bow1:
IN that case you leave me with no choice but to end this with the greatest sporting icon of all time, the epitome of "fair play" I call on: ROY OF THE ROVERS
REALLY!! Do you actually want to do this? Because if this is some sort of challenge, the gloves are off! :fight1: :woo: Naw, just kidding. I'm not that retarded. :Alien: :yeleyes: :Angel:
There's at least one counter (and usually several) to every technique known to man. It's just a question of whether you happen to know it (one), and whether you can get the timing right to bring it off. But having said that, my question is, How do you go about catching my hand/wrist in the first place, without chewing on my knuckles first?
I must admit Pugil that that was what I had in mind at first. The first technique I try to impress upon anyone who joins the school is "not to be there in the first place". But on re-reading Unknown's "Dare" I think he is quite right in that it presupposes that he has already got hold of whoever is daft enough to let him try (Me, in this case LOL). It also states that the "opponent" is to try and "Hit" him, which does not allow for grabbing etc. I don't look on this as a real challenge...more a learning experience. I want to get as much as possible out of next years trip. I am sure that we will explore this avenue next August but I DO intend to return home more or less intact!:evil: ( As I am sure Unknown does too)
As much as I realise the challenge is in jest, I'd love to see high ranking individuals do randori. It'd be great to see some of the techniques being pulled off Age shouldn't be a barrier either, just YouTube kyozo mifune
Randori :topic: Just as a matter of interest, since "randori" is a Japanese term, what is the Korean equivalent terminology for "freestyle" in the MA sense? Cheers guys.
