Your club sounds pretty cool. What association are you in? I've never faced a live blade so take my opinions with a pinch of salt.
There are also people that unsuccessfully defend against knife attacks and end up dead. Or if not, the mental scars of the attack affect the rest of their lives. If the people that defend themselves adequately can do so without training, I don't see what benefit there is of any "scientific" or "analytical" approach. Hit hard if you have to and get away. Anything else is running a risk. Run and live or Don't and take that chance that you might be lucky or unlucky. Your life, your choice. And yes, I've trained with both dummy and live knives (and got cut, although thankfully not seriously) and I genuinely believe that none of the training provided any benefit whatsoever for facing a knife in a real situation unless I also had a weapon. I've also trained with marker pens, and not once in an unscripted attack have I come away without being "marked". That was the one thing opened my eyes to all the so called "defences" I'd been taught and that they simply don't work. All that did was hit and run.
Your right, some of those things are plausable, and the others are silly in relation to training environments but either have happened or do happen in a real life situation. And for the record when i'm at home and not at uni i train at fthl's club and i've been through some of his 'fun house' style training session. Trianing with live or semi live blades has nothing to do with machoism or the like it's the psychological side of training. For physical training we use rubber/wooden knives. And fluffy, you know hoe much live blade training i've had, none. Moony
I train in aiuchi jiu jitsu (www.aiuchi.net) in the uk, but there are several very similar styles - some of the clubs in the british kempo society, (www.bicama.org.uk is one of their clubs that I train at) and those in the jitsu foundation (www.jitsufoundation.org I think...) google all three and see if there is a club near you. I must warn you though that you may not get to do the intense stuff you are talking about until mid way through the kyu grades, 6 months to 3 years, depending on your rate of progression.
I started training with live blades when I was 16 and light blue belt. I always thought it was a necessary part of passing ur next belt once the skill got to a certain level.
Yes, but funnily enough it wasn't for at least a year after training with them, and it was only after i'd been accidently sliced that i stopped worrying about them so much!
I'm guessing from the fact that you talk about light blue as a belt colour that you're tjf?? Do you think that live blades are necessary, for any reason other than to pass gradings?
Surely not, juniors don't use sharps, do they? I have to say, I think fthl is right about the psychological bit. You've only got to see the number of people who will chuck a rubber knife across the dojo to each other and catch it by the blade to see that the connection of 'training knife=treat as dangerous' hasn't formed in their minds. I won't touch a training knife by its blade or try to catch one thrown to me, in an attempt to form an instinctive 'don't hold the blade!' reaction in myself. I am generally fairly good at disarming without touching the blade, but sometimes if I'm under pressure I don't get it right. I see LOADS of people get it wrong in normal training, and even more so get it wrong when they're under pressure.
Yikes we've migrated I heard someone mention the BKS (hi FTHL) Live blades hmmm, do they have a place in training? IMO yes and no. Yes because they raise the adrenalin levels in the uki. And no becasue it requires a lot of trust from both tori and uki Why don't you just knit one :lol KK
Accidents can happen too !!! Have alook at the link ..its not training its reality ...but the results could be the same if training !! http://www.wimp.com/deranged/ :Angel:
Nice tackle... ...also distract and then take out. Also interesting to see the psycho attack and the running defence used effectively.
The chap you are refering to is Soke Fumon Tanaka. He is pretty much the real life last Samurai. I've met him before, and got his signature . I'm not sure of the specifics, but Soke has a relationship with Ross Iannocaro, if you've ever heard of him, who happens to be my instructor, so hes able from time to time to set up seminars like the one i went to. He is one dangerous dude, and we got to see all of his bujutsu students, who are basically a collection of high ranking jujutsu black belts in the UK, use live blades to cut bamboo. He did the sword disarm aswell, it was crazy. Serge Mol was there aswell. I've not done any live knife training before, but one of the main things is the way in which a person actually tries to stab you. In all the movies, and from what i've seen and experienced in training with a rubber knife, the attacker will hold the knife in such a way that the technique you're doing will work ie it is possible to disarm. In reality, thats just not going to happen.
Just to throw something else in the fire, there are lots and lots of techniques for unarmed vs sword where u can actually grab the blade.... Trained with a real sword as well, although I'm sure its not razor sharp.
LMAO. Sorry but as someone experienced in Iai I have say that anyone attempting to grab or hold a sword blade is going to get seriously cut. It takes about a tenth of a second to cut through wara, the whole cut taking about a second or so in the hands of someone knowing what they're doing, do you really want to grab a hold of something moving at these kinds of speeds ? It doesn't matter if the blade is completely still at the point at which it is held, the swordsman has the advantage of grip and often leverage. One such technique in Aikido is Kiriage, I've cut shomen with bokuto which is no where near the same as with either iaito or shinken, and as yet no one in my dojo has managed to disarm me without being struck or I'm having to pull the cut due to seeing a potential and serious injury about to happen. The reality of muto-dori is... well, almost non existent. Regards
Well I disagree.... sorry. Ninpo has quite a few of them. Not only that, but a few tests as well. Likely? Not for most... Possible? Yup.
No need to apologise mate.. well not to me anyway however; feel free to post the pictures of your injuries when you try muto-dori either with a bokuto or with shinken. I've spent a considerable number of years in JSA and within awase/kuzushi gensoku based arts and I doubt anyone would survive without a serious amount of luck and an equally serious injury to boot, like I say feel free to try it. Regards
Well, i respect your training, and I realize that you are probably right with your views. But thats what makes arts different... different techniques, different ways of teaching/training. I have to say personally I have used muto dori (in a randori situation) successfully, but i didnt grab the blade of the sword... more like pushed against the spine... After only 2 years of training... I believe that it can be possible with the right training and techniques. And like someone said in this post, a few people have succeeded, and like I said, people have succeeded in ninpo as well.
The reality of muto-dori at least with classical jujutsu, is that you don't do it unarmed! This is why some bushi carried a daisho and maybe even a few kakushi buki (hideaway weapons) like tessen or jutte. Yagyu Shingan-ryu muto dori employs the use of a helmet in some kata, to deflect the weapon blow and then to effect an effective atemi. Takenouchi-ryu jujutsu, the oldest systemized jujutsu ryuha in Japan makes use of kasa (umbrellas), Hibashi (Iron chopsticks for coal braziers) and Nabe futa (Saucepan pot lids). Comical as it may sound, but these ryuha are teaching the exponent to not get caught with your hakama down if you do, make use of an expedient weapon and use exactly the same kata you would as if armed. Junanshin 柔軟心 - flexibility of mind.
