Lifting Heavy Things

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Pretty In Pink, Jun 20, 2015.

  1. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Hey man, sorry didnt understand your original post.

    Yeah exactly what fish said, take it workout to workout and worry about getting volume in.

    A common formula for the mass building folks is to do 2 main exercises (one upper one lower) for 20-30 reps each (5x5 or a top set of 5 to 8 reps) then 4 assistance exercises focusing on getting blood into the muscle for 40 to 50 reps each exersis (3x15 or 5x10)

    But depending on your other training you might want to go light some days.

    If you're into mass building ask Simon.
     
  2. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I don't think I wrote it very clearly :p


    What are assistance exercises?
     
  3. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    I hate dips. Only cos i can't do them, but then usually its after heavy benching/flyes/tricep work etc.

    My main issue is that my front deltoids are weak/under developed.
     
  4. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    ok, le long post. will try to keep it short (meaning i will fail miserably at trying to, and will write you a bloody essay):

    liftan: hoisting ponderous poundage can make you stronger, can make your muscles bigger, and in some cases can make you more mobile and flexible (it can also do the opposite). you don't want weight loss so we won't touch that, and you know how to handle yoiur weight anyway because weight classes. eat to gain, lift properly, and rest properly, and you get hench.

    how do liftan properly: you know how to squat, dead and press, and pulling is not rocket science so technique wise you're basically covered. programming: you're new, so you start light, and progress is gradual. you can use a very structured program or a very loose program, that varies from person to person (any cursory examination of the last 100-odd pages of my log will show you that i personally thrive tending slightly towards the latter, for example). as to what programming entails: for the moment, not a lot, because you're just starting out, so you just need to get used to lifting consistently, iron out technique kinks, stuff like that. later on you'll have to start adjusting more stuff. stuff that's relevant: traditionally you'll see most talk about three training variables: intensity, volume and frequency. I = weight (absolute is flat weight, relative is percentage of your 1-rep maximum weight, 99% of time intensity means relative intensity), V = total workload per exercise, per session, per month, whatever, in sets and reps at a given intensity (sets times reps times weight = "tonnage", which some take into consideration when planning), F = times per week that you train, overall or per exercise/bodypart/whatever. the more you have of any of those, the harder training is, and the more recovery you need, but the greater the training effect, to a point (contingent on many factors such as what you do, what your goals are, how much and how well you eat, how much your genes cooperate or not, etc). set and rep protocols are a dime a dozen and everyone has their favourite protocol at x or y intensity which they think is the bomb, but consistency reigns king as far as results go, with protocols a distant second, although some types are more optimal for certain goals:

    re: sets, reps, weight and goals: you'll see different exact numbers from different sources, but generally, after the initial acclimation period where you adapt to the routine of actually lifting regularly in the first place (without which you'd be sore all the time and training would be a constant literal and metaphorical pain), there is an intensity range starting at somewhere between 55ish and 60ish percent of your 1rep max (max you can lift only once) and going up about an extra 25-30% from there, that's considered optimal for growth, and an overlapping one going from 65-70ish up to 100% (or more with certain methods and variations that aren't relevant yet), that's for strength. you can deviate or go to an extreme and still get results, but most likely inefficiently.
    now, this is the weight you're handling. this, combined with your physiology, technique, the exercise in question, etc, will determine how many reps you can do in one go. higher reps are considered traditionally better for growth, and lower reps for strength (note the correlation with the intensity ranges). higher intensities are much harder to recover from, where lower ones require higher volume, which can also be quite harsh. frequency gives you a way to spread out volume so that in the long run you still get a constant stimulus. if you think of a bell curve distribution, most of the useful work will be more moderate, with intensities between 70 and 80 or so, plus or minus 5-10 depending on whether you focus on size or strength.
    re: reps per set: how many you can do will depend on your strength and your physiology. you have three energy systems which power muscle action, which give different amounts of energy at different time frames. maximal efforts (1 to 4-6 reps per set, sprinting, stuff like that) drain the first one (atp-phosphocreatine) really fast; submaximal efforts (5 to somewhere over 10, such as hypertrophy work) move onto the next one (glycolytic), which gives less energy but lasts more time; absurd marathon-type workouts would move further, onto the oxidative pathway but that's basically muscle endurance and cardio and won't do much of anything for strength or size in most cases (there are exceptions). also the more you exploit the glycolitic, the more of a pump you get (because of lactic acid, a byproduct of glycolysis). as a final note here, depending on intensity, you'll see most total rep amounts per exercise per workout end up between 10 and 30 or so (barring oxidative or extreme glycolytic workouts which can go way higher but are not relevant to you just yet)

    now, wat do with all this crap? well, first of all, remember that your first goal is to lift consistently. you can do that by two methods: accountability and drive. the first is usually via a coach, like the gigantic russian who tells me how to oly lift. the second is a mix of derangement and enjoyment (preferably the latter :p) that makes you WANT to lift. what you end up doing will usually be what you find fun if you don't have a gigantic russian yelling at you, so this way you can experiment and try to find a balance between what you find fun and what's compatible with your goals and will help you achieve them. secondly, as mentioned before, you need to acclimate to the lifting and build a general physical base before starting to specialize, and with this you can know if what you're doing is conducive to that. as a gross generalization, after your initial ramp up from babby weights to the weights your body can mechanically handle now but would crush you physiologically in retaliation if you tried them unprepared, even if successful, you want to hover at the midpoint of strength and hypertrophy so you don't crush yourself with either excessive volume or intensity (although both high and low I and V have their place, they're at the ends of the bell curve). over time, according to your comfort zones, your physiology, your goals, etc, you will naturally gravitate to your preferred workout parameters, and with enough willpower can tweak them as needed to influence results.

    as a closing note, here's an example of how you could manage your training (completely pulled out of my **** on the spot, so not necessarily THE way to train, just an example):

    given that you can only do gym 2x a week on average, i'd suggest you do roughly the same thing on both days. squat something, press something, deadlift, pull with arms. you have options here: dumbbell or barbell overhead, flat bench or incline bench pressing, dips, barbell or dumbbell rows, pull-ups, chin-ups, deadlifts from the floor (more strength based), romanian or stiff-legged deadlifts (more hypertrophy based), front squats, back squats. more consistency is generally better and at this low a frequency it'd be recommendable to use only one variation of each movement pattern.

    for weighted movements, you can do ~5reps per set (the internet loudly clamours for sets of 5 because of very successfully marketed systems which use them for beginners and due to them being between size and strength reps; i like 5s so i do them, but you're not bound by law to do them or anything), for between 2 and 6 sets (10 to 30 total reps). treat bodyweight moves as strength moves until you can do them in the hypertrophy range. they are effectively weighted, at your bodyweight, after all. if you can do at least 2x5 without undue effort, you're clear for increasing the weight the next time. with 2.5kg to 5kg increases on barbell lifts (total, not on each side), this should last you a fair few months on squat and dl, probably less on pressing and rowing. for dumbbell lifts, depending on the weight jumps, you may want to err on the side of more reps before progressing.

    outside the gym, bodyweight is king. ALL the dips and chin-ups!.

    this could look like this:
    2x a week: back squat 6x5, ohp 3x5, deadlift 2x5, dumbbell row all the reps. 3x a week dips and chin-ups all the reps!

    rambled enough so i'll stop now :p
     
  5. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    also, assistance exercises are minor exercises that have smaller effects that add up to the total training effect but are not the primary drivers of progress, so are usually done at the end. example: main lift flat bench press, optionally continue with incline bench, assist with direct arm work like triceps extensions, dumbbell pressing of some kind, etc.
     
  6. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Brilliant. I'm starting tomorrow. Sort of reluctant to start a log because it just feels like pressure rather than enjoying it. However for this initial set ill post it on here tomorrow.
     
  7. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    you can log privately rather than do it here though. some people like to, some don't, but in general it's pretty useful in the long run. notebooks are the ocd lifter's best friend :p
     
  8. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    Aside from what you're got, bodyweight exercises and stuff like climbing things has helped my gains. I've also gleaned some useful ideas from watching strongman events. If you can get hold of the equipment, it's pretty fun. I'm especially fond of tire flips. Makes me feel like a kid again. :D

    Basically, do the kind of stuff kids do for lolz-climbing trees and playground equipment, throwing heavy things, etc.
     
  9. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Could you repeat all that except change the sets/reps/weights where necessary to reflect strength as opposed to mass gains ( weight loss would not be considered a bad thing in this case)

    Intensity being a function of...?
     
  10. zombiekicker

    zombiekicker bagpuss

    Where can I get a gigantic Russian, sorry I don't know how to pick a part of post to quote
     
  11. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    There's one that cooks at my kid's school. You want me to send her over? :D
     
  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

  13. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Cheers that article was great!
     
  14. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Scramble blog is awesome.
     
  15. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Assistance exercises - light exercises that work on body parts to get a pump e.g. Dumbbell rows, lunges, curls etc
     
  16. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I always thought assistance exercises, were those that assist the performance of a movement pattern, but target a specific weakness, so lat pulp downs or bicep curls assist pull ups, lunges assist the muscles for squats etc
     
  17. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    for powerlifting - yes thats a perfect definition.

    for a BJJ/MMA player looking to move up weight class then assistance are movements to prevent injury and increase volume to specific areas that they want mass in without adding too much stress.
     
  18. zombiekicker

    zombiekicker bagpuss

    Yeah, tell her to be gentle :)
     
  19. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Ahh so to include prehab/rehab type work.

    Interesting, thanks.
     
  20. Prizewriter

    Prizewriter Moved on

    Hi there. I took a break from MA back in the day and did Olympic lifting for a few years. At the time I thought it would help my MA training when I got back it to it. It did not lol! I know better now.

    Would you ever think about doing a sports specific MMA S&C program Chadderz? Kevin Kearns has some very good stuff.
     

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