It's aired pretty much everywhere now (Bravo lied to me on their adverts. I've got a job interview with them next week, I plan to tell them that they're all liars ), we can take the spoiler tags out
I think right now, no light heavy weights can stop chuck, although I think if Bisping bulks up and moves to train with better fighters at a better gym he could be a contender in a year or so's time. I'm English though so i'm bound to be biased .
Bisping's dropping to 185, I believe. Bisping's really good and I think couple of years down the line, if he keeps training hard and moves to train with better guys, he'll be a force, but right now's a little soon for him. I'm biased too, obviously
I liked Bisping's kickboxing, and he had some decent ground work, too. I think he's got loads of potential... and I'm not biased Didn't see the match myself, but read the results. Especially after seeing Sobral's workout routines, I really thought it was possible we were going to have a new LHW Champ in the UFC. Because of that I'm even more disappointed at how short the match was. But hey, Chuck can KO someone almost by thinking about it. He only needs that one shot, and usually gets it.
It's not so much that Chuck knocked him out, it's how it happened. It's like Babalu thought he was fighting a poor striker, not a tremedous counter striker. He landed a nice jab, and had a chance to take Chuck down and instead he chased him swinging widly and only went for a shot after he had already been caught with a few nice counterpunches.
He just got a little eager and went in over-aggressively for the finish after he caught Liddell with a good shot rather than keeping his head and going for a takedown. It could well happen to any fighter, it's happened to Crocop, it's happened to Arlovski, it's happened to Pulver and it'll happen to great fighters again. Poor choice? Yes. Unprecedented act of idiocy? No Babalu's not done by any stretch of the imagination - he's still the UFC's #2 fighter at 205lbs IMO and would do well in any organisation. In fact, it could well be argued that he'd fare better in Pride - he matches up much better with Silva, Shogun (who he's already beaten) and most of their other middleweights than he does Liddell. Writing him off over a loss to a man who can well be argued to be the #1 205lb fighter in the world (though I'd personally put him at 2) would be stupid
Of course others have made similar mistakes, I just assumed he would know that Chuck is perhaps the last person you run at like that and I have a feeling he will be kicking himself for a long time about that. I don't mean to say he is done simply that he may be percieved as done by the major organizations. He is essentially worthless to the UFC now that he has been demolished by Chuck twice, the common fan now thinks he is a can and no one roots for a can. The same goes for Pride, they don't want to hire someone and have them go on to a successful career only to have the UFC say "Yea, that guy got demolished here but over in Pride he did well so what does hat say?". If the UFC keeps him and gives hima chance to rebuild himself, then he will have to wait years for a title shot and the same goes for Pride. I don't know how well he would do in Pride as I havn't seen him fight a really high quality figher except Chuck and we know what happened. He did beat Shogun but wasn't that like 6 months after Shogun started training and when he was only 21?
I just can't believe Babalu dropped his hands against Liddell. Renato must've thought Liddell was shaken up, when Liddell was on the run. Though, it was funny, Babalu was so out of it --after John McCarthy stopped the fight-- he tried to take McCarthy down, but McCarthy got mount. It was over.
Yeah, probably, but when the adrenaline goes, loads of people don't think. Randy Couture got dropped the same way first time and quicker than Sobral did I disagree completely. An exciting, well rounded fighter is never worthless to the UFC, especially with the dearth of top 10 fighters in their divisions and judging by the way the odds went, lots of people were giving him a chance. The UFC know this. Losing to Liddell quickly doesn't make him look like a can in the eyes of the average fan, it just makes Liddell look that bit more dominant. Evan Tanner's lost to Franklin twice - do people think he's a can? Arlovski's lost to Sylvia twice - do they think he's a can? How about Couture? There are still quite a few good matchups for Babalu in the UFC if he sticks around. He might need to build up on a few undercard matches before another big money match, but there's main event potential with a Tito Ortiz fight, especially if/ when Liddell beats Tito again. Many fighters have left the UFC on losses and gone to Pride to have success. Wanderlei Silva, Vitor Belfort and Phil Baroni being just three such examples. If history's taught us anything, it's that Pride don't really give two tugs of a dead dogs dangly bits what the UFC think or say With the way their 205lb division stacks up right now, Babalu could concievably clean it out within a year and be getting another shot. Possibly even less. Seriously, apart from Liddell, who would beat him? The only guy who'd give him a run is Tito Ortiz and he didn't beat Liddell either Yeah, he was about 21 at the time and had been fighting pro MMA for about a year, he'd been training for a good few years at that time and gave Sobral a run, but if Sobral went to Pride, you can guarantee he'd be in the ring with Shogun within three fights providing they were both injury/ tournament free - he's the first guy to give him a pro loss and the only person to legitimately stop him (he subbed him with a guillotine after a really exciting fight). To Pride, that's money. He matches up well against guys like Shogun and Silva because neither of those guys have takedown defence that's a touch on Liddell's and although both (Shogun especially) have an active guard, they'd find it hard to stop Sobral keeping the top position. There would be quite a few good matchups for him over in Japan
Rematch Syndrome? Lately it seems when two guys get together for a rematch, one of two things happen: They spend way too much time feeling each other out such as Griffin-Bonner 2 or the last Silvia-Arlovski match. Or the loser of the previous match comes in aggressively and gets taken out quickly as in Ortiz-Shamrock 2 or Liddel-Sobral 2.
I guess it is fairly common, but you would hope the best fighterrs in the world would know better/control themselves better. Thats the thing, none of the common UFC fans know squat about Babalu except that he has gotten destroyed by Chuck Liddel in a way that makes Babalu look like a punk. Evan Tanner- His career hasn't taken what you would call a turn for the better since his loss to Rich. Arlovski- His star fell when he lost to Sylvia, the second loss really solidified how "bad" he is to the common fan. Couture- Everyone just says he is too old, and then he retired. Babalu isn't too old, but maybe he can retire? The common MMA fan sees two very quick KO losses as a sign that you are bad, and that you are "unworthy" of another title shot. i hope he gets a chance to come back and earn his way to another title shot, but the UFC has a bad habit of using people who are well known as opposed to well skilled(Ken Shamrock is a nice example) and Babalu is now known for being the guy Chuck murdered twice. Absolutely there are some good match-ups, but he isn't a big name draw, or even a small draw after his recent loss so unless he can win some big fights in a very exciting fashion in a way that Joe Schmoe can say "hey, he might have a chance" then I don't see him getting one. Yea, but Pride wasn't trying to show their dominance over the UFC back then. Now they are coming head to head with the UFC and having one of your best fighters lose to a guy who got slaughtered against the UFC champ will lead to the average joe doing MMA math. If Babalu beat Shogun, and Chuck destroyed Babalu, then Chuck is greater than Shogun. Pride doesn't want anyone to be able to use some sort of MMA math to point out that the UFC has better fighters. It isn't so much who would beat him, as how much attention he would draw. The fact remains that Forrest is a much bigger draw now, same goes for Tito, same goes for even Bonnar and any number of other fighters. I am afraid the UFC won't give him a chance for the title again for a long time, because there wouldn't be a way for them to hype a Sobral vs Liddel. How would they hype it when everyone now knows Babalu as the guy Liddel ate alive? No one would give Babalu a shot, so no one would tune in to see what they would expect to be another 2 minute destruction. If Pride let him, because Pride doesn't want one of their top fighters to lose to a guy who got slaughtered by Chuck for one simple reason- The Average Joe views Babalu as a joke now, and if that joke beats one of Prides best then what would that say about Shogun? I am afraid it would say to the common fan that Pride is a joke which is something Pride obviously does not want the new MMA fans in the U.S to think.
WHAT!? i can't think of a single person who thinkgs arlovski is "bad" or anything less than very talented. couture no, i think most people will tell you he had the grace to retire at the right time. after the beating he gave belfort i don't think anyone can accuse him of being "too old" that coupled with the fact that he hasn't ruled out a return bout. oh and tanner, i honestly haven't seen him in a bit. and no, the logic of one upman ship has been debunked more than once, its not that simple man. people have diffrent styles and diffrent approaches. If i remember correctly, kevin randleman beat crocop, and chuck beat randleman. but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone williing to say that chucks better than crocop. although i would say it could be a nice fight.
QUOTE]The Average Joe views Babalu as a joke now, and if that joke beats one of Prides best then what would that say about Shogun? I am afraid it would say to the common fan that Pride is a joke which is something Pride obviously does not want the new MMA fans in the U.S to think.
They aren't I've got training to get to in a bit so I don't have time to go through your post point by point. Suffice to say that it's been sautée'd in Wrong Sauce though
You can't? Go to any large MMA forum like Sherdog and there will be countless people saying Sylvia and Arlovski are horrible and could get beat by Joe Schmoe. People like Couture, but they all explained his losses to Chuck as him being too old. They say "He was 41, of course he lost but if he was in his prime he would have dominated". Your right, MMA math has been debunked time after time but that doesn't stop people from using it often. People are saying Chuck is better than Fedor now all over the internet because Fedor only beat Babalu by decision while Fedor took it to a decision. Their logic is flawed, but they still use it and they are not alone.
Of course they are, are you kidding? They come form the American public, which in general is full of morons. And a large majority of the new fans are those who just want to see some blood and see someone get knocked out, not exactly the same group who discuss philosophy. I would bet that a big part of the UFC's new fans were or still are fans of WWE, you are overestimating their intelligence. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of smrt people who watch the UFC, but they like in everything else(except perhaps Harvard Law) are outnumbered by morons.
I think Tito has the potential to beat chuck, his cardio is far superior to chucks and chuck is getting far to confident for his own good, Tito has an excellent chin and i doubt hell make the same stupid mistake as last time and try to stand with him, i think he could do what Randy did and take him down and keep him down and pound on him as Tito is a great wrestler, Chuck is awesome and i am a huge fan dont get me wrong, but his reign as LHC cant last forever, i feel bad for Tito for having to fight Shamrock again, he needs a real fight to show he deserves a title shot, oh yer and if forrest griffin gets a title shot i will kill myself, i dont want to see a 30 second fight, especially when the challenger is undeserving
Don't want to start another thread... Anyone heard anything about Babalu? I hope I wasn't right and the UFC canned him..
I don't think UFC canned him. He won his last 3 appearances there so its unlikely. I still remember everyone screaming NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! when he started to chase Liddell. :cry: I really wanted him to when for two reasons 1) I'm a Gracie Barra member and 2) I had a fight with Chuck's brother that fell through.
