Leaving the Bujinkan

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Kikaku, Apr 27, 2006.

  1. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    Tae Bo and Yellow Bamboo are not proven styles. They are made up styles of the 21st century with no links to actual combat.

    PS: There is no best style, so what your asking is moot because it doesnt matter.
     
  2. pearsquasher

    pearsquasher Valued Member

    Footwork -check
    Timing - check - very much part of this years theme in the Bujinkan from what i've seen
    Resistence - I just explained part of it. I prefer ukemi, which as it happens, we train in 50+% of the time.



    On the video thing, here's a suggestion: Go rent out "twighlight samurai" - a 2004 Japanese movie widely available with 3 fight scenes that perfectly resemble Bujinkan-type movements with "resistance". (In my opinion).

    I think they show, less dramatically than most films, elements of distance, timing, openings, and emotional intent that I've seen simiilar to in Bujinkan dojo...there's even a duel for you "fighting" fans. (Granted its a choreographed movie but it illustrates these things nicely)
     
  3. xen

    xen insanity by design

    this is a very important point, it doesn't actually matter if the opponent resists.

    in fact, its actually better for us if they do !!

    ukemi was something i had to focus on with especial regard when i first started training again in 96 after a hospital break or two to sort my back out again. I *cough* ahem, sort of went behind my docs back when i went back training 6 months after bone grafts, instead of 2-3 years like he reccommended (but i did get as much info from as many physio's docs and nurses as i could while i was in hospital so i had a pretty clear idea of what to avoid etc), anyway, i digress :rolleyes:

    hitting the ground badly could have had pretty serious consequences (i might not have been able to get up again) so i really had to get my head round where a technique being applied on me was going to take me, and be well of ahead it in order to 'control my own descent'

    in addition, i found that if i offered ANY resistance all to a movement, it severely aggrivated the pain, as the forces got grounded through hips and added extra tension to an already stressed system.

    So i learned very quickly to be, horror of horrors, compliant, the anti-uke of the MMA world.

    At its most fundamental level, this was a natural self-protection stratergy that came about to protect my injuries. But pretty soon i realised that by relaxing in this way, it was actually easier to turn things round, to find ways to gain control of the agressor etc.

    Since then i have been on a mission to try and get people who come through the door to RELAX, not to fight and to understand that if you meet resistance in one direction, then there will be a related direction where there is none, so move from there instead.

    The result of this is that you get used to the people you train with getting 'lighter' as the years go by, not in the sense that the technique they apply is lacking, but that it becomes more difficult to 'fight' them, because they give you less to sense...until the technique comes in and temporarily disables you.

    When you then go and train with someone who is still using resistance as a stratergy, you know where they are, you know where they will move next, the resistance communicates all this to you.

    it really is pretty simple stuff (in thoery anyway), but it does require you to comprehend the different mind set required to translate these simple ideas into effective body movement, in a very real sense you have to learn to think differently, not in the sense of our mental reflections of the world, but in terms of the interplay between our current mental state and the how this influences the manner in which we move from A to B.
     
  4. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned


    :D

    Care to solve the Skasis Paradigm for me then please?

    :D
     
  5. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    I think this is what Ben was talking about earlier, when you train with an uke they are literally going to go the way you want them, if they resist then only you movement and the understanding of their balance and body structure (shiki) will help you move and overcome this resistance. Sometimes inviting resistance trips up the uke (setting them up)
     
  6. Existence

    Existence Super Saiyajin :o

    Well, I also agree that there is no "ultimate" style, but i also feel that some martial arts are not as up to par as others; which is what i think he was asking.
    Budo Taijutsu is an excellent martial art, the problem is that there are a lot of
    low quality dojo's. The negative will most often overshadow the positive in the eyes of people.

    Hey guys, ever train with an Uke on Chrystal Meth?
    Strange experience... and unsafe.
     
  7. kouryuu

    kouryuu Kouryuu

    I thought "shiki" meant consciousness :confused:
     
  8. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    Not according to Sven!! :D
     
  9. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned


    Think Greg's reliving a Sven seminar :eek:
     
  10. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned


    see told you :D
     
  11. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

  12. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned

    Interesting Greg.

    Initially I took those components of Shiki on an personal level i.e. your own breathing, structure, movement and relaxation but I suppose it flows both ways and can be applied to Uke
     
  13. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned


    Although the goal is the level of consiousness, would achievement lead to an ultimate understand of the attacker thus leading to their defeat every time??
     
  14. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned


    I suppose it depends on what you mean by defeat?
     
  15. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    What is defeat?? falling over, control, beaten to death, stopped in your tracks??

    who defines defeat? is it really that different for everyone?
     
  16. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned

    All of the above and none ;)

    On one side IMO it comes down to being aware in such a way as to negate or possibly limit, if we can be more realistic about such an abstract concept, a potential threat. Could this be appilied to pre-fight, in-fight amd post-fight?

    Is the mugger who is put off from chosing you due to your level of awareness defeated? I'd say so.
     
  17. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned


    Exactly, so when all of the bullshido crew on here have a look, they really need to look at what defeat is, to them it seems that the only defeat is on the floor with you head pumping with blood.
     
  18. Sonshu

    Sonshu Buzz me on facebook

    I think its fair to say they Bullshido lot dont think like that. :D
     
  19. Connovar

    Connovar Banned Banned

    I gave you a fair proposal in good faith and this is your response? It would have costs us both a little postage and several hours of time on my part to review the data, assess it to the criteria for "aliveness" and post it. Professionals exchange information like this all the time. Any respect I had for you as a person and as Martial Artist is now gone.
     
  20. Sonshu

    Sonshu Buzz me on facebook

    10 out of 10 for arrogance there! Well done.
     

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