lead jab foot pivot

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by nicosp, Jul 16, 2016.

  1. nicosp

    nicosp New Member

    Hey forum

    There is a question I have regarding the lead jab that no one has ever been able to answer properly. I’ve also researched the Internet, but to no avail. I was wondering if someone with experience can answer it.

    I think most people agree that rotating the hip when throwing a lead jab adds power (and range) to the punch. What I’m not sure is whether the lead foot should remain on the floor or whether it should pivot, too (inward on the ball of the foot). Some boxers do this, others don’t. It doesn’t seem to add range and I’m not so sure about power.

    I've posted the same questions in the boxers' forum. I'm posting it here as well because kickboxers may answer it differently.

    Nico
     
  2. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    It adds range and power because it allows for greater hip rotation. It's also better for your knee and shoulder.
     
  3. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Yes, pivot. Not a lot but enough. Just rep it out.
     
  4. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Mod note- cross post in boxing forum deleted.
     
  5. nicosp

    nicosp New Member

    Yes, why don't you move it to the general martial arts discussion. Thanks.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 16, 2016
  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    If your boxing its great, if your kickboxing, it opens up the leg to getting kicked, and in mma it opens up a easy takedown.

    horses for courses.
     
  7. Hapuka

    Hapuka Te Aho

    You can pivot on the jab in Boxing if you want to, just don't go overboard with it (your foot is already on a 45 degree angle). In Muay Thai I wouldn't recommend it as it can leave you lead leg exposed to leg shots.

    If you can jab, chances are your opponent can kick you leg. Save the pivot for the hook or uppercut. Remember that the jab is more or less of a set up.

    I really only set it up the pivot on the jab if I want to pivot out of the way of an oncoming opponent.
     
  8. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    I'm one that disagrees that rotating the hip on a lead jab adds power and range to the punch. However, it is kind of a trick question because you do add power and range with hip rotation on a jab, it is tricky because the power should come from the minimum hip rotation needed. So a LITTLE hip rotation is used for more power and range.

    Note: If you need to use a greater amount of hip rotation to hit, then think of it as a hook thrown with a straight lead (a combination of hook and jab). But in this case, the power component is like a hook and less like a jab. The only reason it is like a jab is probably needing longer range.

    Primary power and range from a jab is going to be from body alignment and stepping. However, we have more than five ways to throw a jab so the jabs I like using aren't usually the basic #1 jab.

    For the basic #1 jab, I'll give you my pointers. You can take it or leave it.

    1) In orthodox stance. Point your left foot in the direction of the jab target (where left foot points is your power line).
    2) Throw your left jab as if you are stiff arming the opponent. Notice the body alignment of a stiff arm... this is the alignment for your "natural" jab.
    3) Lift your left knee up slightly and drop your elbow in to retract your punch back. Notice that by lifting your left knee up slightly, your hips rotate slightly... this is all the amount of hip rotation you use on the jab, no more, no less.
    4) Drop your left foot down (step) and jab again with the stiff arm.
    5) Lift your left knee up slightly and drop your elbow in to retract your punch.

    Repeat 4 and 5.

    An example of the above is the first boxer (Riddick Bowe) in the following video. There are better jabs but like I said there are more than five different kinds of jabs, so for the basic jab I like Riddick's.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTMzmv14AQ8"]TOP 5 GREATEST JAB's EVER - YouTube[/ame]

    Watch how he steps and see the knee comes up slightly and the timing of the step with the jab hitting.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
  9. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    I pivot or not depending on the situation. Usually, I pivot on the foot, all things being equal. If I'm being out-ranged or out-speeded, I'll use a Dempsey drop instead. If I'm doing an eye strike, I don't pivot much at all.
     
  10. BahadZubu

    BahadZubu Valued Member

    Right now, the best thing you can focus on is always pushing off the back foot and doing a little step with your first foot. Whether you 'pivot' on the front foot will be related to where you are throwing your jab. If i'm jabbing to the body I have to pivot my front foot. But a very deceptive skill in boxing is how to jab (while pushing off your back foot and lifting your front) and staying in a similar place. It's very related to range and what kind of reaction you are trying to get out of your opponent.
     
  11. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Highly Skilled Peeper Supporter

    If you're boxing and you pivot with the jab, it's not really a jab anymore. It would be more of a lead straight. Jabs aren't meant to do damage, and when they do it's an accumulation of jabs. The only thing that should be rotating with a jab is your torso to make it stiffer or push somebody back (or to get some leverage to hop back).

    In general, when you pivot your foot you're looking to put a little power into a shot. That's fundamentally not what a jab is meant to do. Stick and move. You can't do that if you look like a whopped chicken in the footwork area by turning the lead foot.
     
  12. Unreal Combat

    Unreal Combat Valued Member

    Kickboxing and Muay Thai, anything involved with low kicking. Don't pivot. You're just making it easier for your opponent to unbalance you or damage your joint with oblique kicks/teep. Keep the knee pointing forward where possibe.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016
  13. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    When you step in and throw a jab, your opponent can sweep your leading leg. If you

    - resist by turning your shin bone into the sweep, your toes have to turn outward. This will interrupt your jab.
    - bend your leg at your knee joint, let the sweeping leg to pass under it, your opponent can move in and attack you while you are standing on your back leg only.

    So, what's the best way to deal with a foot sweep when you throw a jab?

    IMO, if you want to root your leading foot and resist against that foot sweep, to have your toes to point "forward" is better than to have your toes to point "inward". Your "inward" leading foot will give your opponent a perfect chance to meet his instep on your ankle since your ankle is pointing outward.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016
  14. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Whenever attacking along the high line, your low line may be open for counter. Since a jab usually goes along the high line a well timed sweep can be a very effective counter.

    The sweep is particularly an issue when using the #2 power/stiff jab. Basically it comes down to timing. When a bigger step is taken, the timing to land the jab is more difficult. So basically, people start learning the jab with larger steps against a non-moving target, but this is not so practical against a moving target. So the idea is to progressively learn to throw the jab effectively with smaller steps. Even a step of a few inches or less. This helps to mitigate against a sweep because a step of one inch is faster than most sweeps can time.

    The risk of any larger step is that the opponent has time to set you up, particularly if they are ready to pounce and you are predictable to them. There is a video on youtube of one of Bas Rutten's fights where the opponent is throwing a jab and Bas nails him with a roundhouse kick to the liver. Fight over.

    If going for a larger step, it is best to catch the opponent unaware of what you are doing.

    If sweeping is a concern, remember that jabs are primarily defensive weapons. The slicing jab is probably my favorite one because it is basically just throwing the hand into the face/eyes of the opponent while moving laterally. The left slicing jab can be done while circling right, step laterally to the right and shoot the hand into the face with minimum upper body rotation because rotation can give away your intentions. The slicing jab done circling left is basically move left, then swing right leg around (half-moon step) and throw that left hand over the shoulder into the face. The lateral movement makes it hard for the opponent to time a sweep.
     
  15. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Correction: I didn't mean slicing jab, I meant flick jab. Flick jab is my favorite for maintaining mobility, particularly circling and moving laterally. The flick jab is the one that is a sort of back knuckle hit coming from underneath and targeting the eye. It can hit with the knuckles at closer range or you can use it to bring your paw on front of opponent's face at longer ranges (blocking their vision). It could also be an eye poke/rake with the finger tips.

    I do like the slicing jab too, but it is one that isn't as good against low line attack counters. The slicing jab is the opposite motion from the flick jab. So instead of coming up and in to the target, the slicing jab comes from above and down across the target. If I did a slicing jab, I could immediately follow up with a flick jab because the end of the slicing jab puts me in position for a flick jab. The reason the slicing jab isn't so great against low line counters is because all the weight ends up on the front leg and you end up leaning forward slightly over the leg. So use the slicing jab sparingly if the opponent is allowed to kick low or drop down and shoot in. About the best time I've found for a slicing jab is breaking a clinch and the opponent is starting to move backwards (away), IMHO.
     

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