Which club do you train at razorlite? Is it a BKFA club? So BKFA people: How long have the extra 4 knife defenses been in the syllabus??
Thought so. Shame really, As adding some additional ones would really help bulk up the self-defense side of Lau Gar.
No, Peter Edwards is not in the BKFA. He is a first class competition fighter and I believe he did train with Neville for many years, but his association is not affiliated to the BKFA. There are only 6 knife defences in the sullabus. As for the senior walks being different from beginners walks......... I have to agree with Oldman on this one!(oh my God, i'm gonna get nailed for this) I teach the walks differently to beginners than to more senior grades. I have also been taugh techniques by Master Yau and/or John Russell that are very different from the beginner walks. You could say that this is just learning a different application, but it is far more than that. I will teach a beginner basic step & punch in a very simple way until they have grasped the co-ordination and simple mechanics of the technique, later on this will alter quite significantly once they have learnt more about pushing the fist to the centre first, generation of Ging, application of the concepts of Luk Hop. Even more so in techniques such as Cern Ping Choi (double punch), where even the lower hand movement is completely different in the beginners technique to a more advanced variation. To Tartovski, I'm surprised that you say you perform a technique in the same way as a beginner. If you walked into my class and I asked you to perform Harng ma ping choi, i'd expect to see the technique of a brown sash, not a white sash.
Fair enough. Though, by definition then, you must have more than one syllabus. If "harm ma ping choi" is taught differently to beginners, then it's not the same technique "harm ma ping choi" is it? It's a "shadow" of the true technique. Now of course, this is the key point. when you teach it in a simple way - what do you leave out? I think this might merely be a communication problem. As i've said before, I really don't think the mechanics change when a blacksash does a move compared to a beginner (at the end of the day, to do a front kick requires the same muscles to be used whoever does it), however I think it is very clear that a seniors technique is much crisper, sharper, (faster usually), balanced and so on. However, that is down to them being much more comfortable with a technique both physically and mentally, not down to "right, now do it THIS way". or at least, not in our club. Are you talking about the twisting grab the bottom hand performs (sorry, best way to describe it) do you not teach that to beginners then? And I'd expect you to see the technique of a Blacksash - after all, we should always strive to be the grade above the one hold or we'd become static. I think this all might be a difference of teaching. It seems you may teach by applying a technique in steps, where as we go for the whole technique but then slowly focus it to become "right". I hope that makes sense!
the grab & twist is as good a way to describe it. I start with a wu sau that rotates outwards and grab the attacking arm, then twists it prior to the strike/block of the top arm. I think it's pretty much the same as you describe. But in answer to whether I teach that to beginners, then no I don't usually. The standard syllabus technique shown in the old video by J.Russell does not show the elbow break, it shows a simplified technique for lower grades to get the "idea" of the movements. Basically it shows the upper arm as an inward block to the attackers punch, while the more advanced version is a break to the controlled and twisted arm. Very different techniques. Interestingly.....if you do the twisting grab and elbow break, it is unlikely that it came directly from Neville (who I think you said taught your teacher) as he didn't do it that way even with his seniors. Maybe we can say that there is a more advanced "version" of the syllabus, but it could be more of a set of more complex applications than a completely different seniors syllabus. Either way...I've gotta go, as ive got a class to teach in an hour!
Now this is really interesting! Bottom line is this: If it works for you and you like what you get out of it, then stick with it. I train in Lung Ying and I'm not a fan of grading, rank, belts, etc. as they were not part of the traditional way CMA was taught. However, it is the reality of commercialism and is what it is..sigh. As far a Lau Gar history, as long as everyone acknowledges that it's a collective of forms from different styles put together then no problem. My only issue was that it was being proagated as a "traditional" style in the sense described above whereas it is not. But I do not speak against the effectiveness or practicality of the style, nor against the style itself. There are plenty of non traditional styles out there that work very well, and as long as one knows what one is getting and accepts that then who cares?
Hmmm. I'm failing to see where the arm break comes in myself. The way we do the technique is this (going from right stance into left - ignoring the leg movements): The arms start at yours side. Then the right arm rises straight up, palm facing forwards, at the same time the left arm moves horizontally across the body, palm down until the hand reaches the right side of the body, underneath the right-arm's elbow. As you start to twist your body counter clockwise, the right arm automatically moves across from outside to inside forming the block, You rotate your right hand counterclockwise and also grab. whilst you do this your left hand maintains it position relative to the right elbow (about 2-3" below) and the hand twists counterclockwise as you grab. the end of the move is obviously the double punch and return. NOW. if you were grabbing with your left, then that would mean their arm would always be BELOW the right arm, so where does the break come from? unless you change the move quite a bit (at the end of the movement, pull your left arm back further so your right is in front of it) I can't see where the break is... Am I missing something?? well, we do do the twisting grab - but not the break it seems! it could be from anywhere. kevin trained with neville, and obviously yau a bit, plus humphrey broome (i think), so it could've come from a variety of sources!! agreed. i think it is kinda what I was getting at.
Totally. which is why i DO stick with it, slings and arrows of outrageous fortune not withstanding. This is kinda my point. It's seems that the company line isn't telling the full story, and I would like to know the full story. I don't give a monkeys that "lau gar" might actually be a blend of Lau Gar, SPM, and Wing Chun. But what I do care about is which bits came from where and when as I think it's important to understand the roots. Plus of course "tradional" is a bit vague. ie if Yau himself blended these three styles, then it could be argued that it's a hybrid. however, if his grandfather did the blending, then does it become traditional? what if the person who taught him blended them? at the end of the day, how many decades of tradition do you have to go back before bringing it other bits to your style is part of it's traditional lineage, rather than "Mixing and matching"??
I agree with you here! Is Choylifut a traditional style? because it's obviously a hybrid/blend of 3 systems. I do know that the Wing Chun aspect was taught to Master Yau's grandfather and then passed to him. So If Master Yau's GF did the blending then passed it onto J.Yau and he passed it to someone who passed it to me who then passed it to my student, then it's history is longer than CLF! Now everybody agrees that clf is traditonal in the true sense of the word. Here's what the dictionary says: Traditional: "following or belonging to the customs or ways of behaving that have continued in a group of people or society for a long time" I'd have to say that Lau Gar kuen as taught by Master Yau is traditional as it fits this description.
Really? Cool. Not heard anyone confirm or deny where it came from before. I guess that applies to the first two sets... Now all i need to do is work out where all the SPM stuff fits in and i'll be happy. I think it's "long time" that's the debate... how long has CLF been about? (Going back to my other post - any chance you can comment on the arm break in double block double punches?)
ok....cern ping choi. from yeu bai. step with the left foot forward, right fist sits on hip, left hand moves to centre line and up into a wu sau (willow palm), this then turns the right facing palm outwards (to the left) and grabs the attackers right arm as he punches, as the gripped arm is rotated outwards with the left hand the right forearm swings (for want of a better word) inwards and breaks the attackers elbow. this hand then continues into the straight ping choi to the face, while the left hand releases the attackers arm and strikes to the heart. I'm actually gonna do a few vid clips of some of these and pop them up on our new site when it's completed.
Ok... but to do that you'd have to create a straight line with the attackers arm, and then break that line with your right arm. I can't see how you can do this and keep your left hand below your right elbow - which I was always taught to do. That might help!
Choy Li Fut was indeed founded by taking techniques from those three styles. It was done at a time when it was felt necessary to train up soldiers as fast as possible because of the threats faced by China at that time. And, as has been stated in a number of other threads, Lau Gar, as practiced in this country, is a Hakka style mixed with a southern Chinese system - Preying Mantis. There has been a great deal of discussion about it on this forum because its basic training form does not look like its advanced form. The basic form is indeed to help train a student up but it is also to give him/her something to use until he/she reaches the advanced levels.
How "advanced" is advanced? I know all the open hand forms (apart from the internal form for 5th(?) degree) and I'm not sure where the Lau Gar/SPM boundry is... Any info would be helpful!
