Langenschwert's Favourite clips from ARMA

I'm not an ARMA member, but man do they do good stuff. Here are the best clips they've put out, IMO:

Unarmoured Longsword Techniques: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsGU5KI1qJA"]Longsword Techniques - YouTube[/ame]

Unarmoured steel sparring: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNja00FNyeg"]ARMA Free-Play in Gambesons with Federschwerter - YouTube[/ame]

More unarmoured steel sparring (my favourite ARMA clip, personally): [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bZWuNd-tqY"]Free-Play with Federschwerter - YouTube[/ame]

Armoured steel sparring (very, very cool): [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnqOMbFDEAI"]Harnischfechten-Armoured Free Play - YouTube[/ame]

Best regards,

-Mark

 

I must say that I was pretty impressed by the ferocity they sparred (without protection)

 

excellent links. Thanks for sharing.Inspiring stuff.

regards koyo

 

Me too. I aspire to that level of performance.

Best regards,

-Mark

 

Mark I enjoyed the clips very much and it is interesting to note except for the last clip with the Armored Sparring where they were grabbing the swords. That the other clips reminded me of the way people in Budo Taijutsu move. Very similar!

 

Yeah nice clips. Don't fancy doing that without a fencing mask. Eyes are damn hard things to replace. Seems an unnecessary risk, sparring without a fencing mask.

The Bear.

 

Well I think they had pretty good control and were not really going all out. (otherwise someone would have been hurt) Still I am with you that Fencing Masks would make it a little more safe.

 

Under no circumstances should you be doing that without a 1600N mask.

IMO ARMA would be refused membership of BFHS on safety grounds if they passed that off as their normal training regime.

 

Does seem an odd decision since fencing masks are pretty standard wear these days and are not that encumbering. Unless it was just an exercise in gential waving.

The Bear.

 

Personally I applaud the cojones it takes to do that. The control was exceptional, even if they were only going at say 3/4 speed. Neither of them was willing to sacrifice the opponent's safety to get a hit.

That being said, I don't think it should be even remotely mandatory. Some people will never reach the skill level required to do that safely. The amount of force required to break a collar bone, for example is very small... just a few pounds, IIRC. And like was mentioned before, eyes are fragile and irreplaceable.

There are very few people whose control I'd trust enough to do that with. Even then I'd want a fencing mask, since I'm not that good.

Were I to actively pursue this kind of unprotected fencing, I'd start with light contact with padded weapons and safey goggles. Then see how many bruises I'd get and work from there, and once I'd graduated to unprotected steel, start at VERY slow speeds and work up slowly, using very structured "free play".

Best regards,

-Mark

 

sorry but thats just stupid.
ARMA are being smart arses to prove what? That they are hard?
Clements has had a rep for injuring people in the past. Is this his way of proving that ARMA are 'cutting' edge or proving they have exactly one brain cell between them?
I'm not impressed.

 

I've heard that about Clements too. Allthough I wouldn't risk sparring that ferocesly withouth a fencingmask, I must admit that I was pretty impressed with the skill it takes to pull off a stunt like that without getting injured. They could of course be just lucky, though... Once I and a partner attempted somthing similar with wooden waisters (full speed, semi full contact, withouth masks) at a show indoors with poor light (spots in the roof, etc, but what don't you risk for some publicity...) -anyways, I got hit just above my eye, and allthough it prooved to be just be a black eye, it could easily have been something more severe...

 

The way I see it; If they are all consenting, then let them. I take my hat off to them for having the guts to take such risks and test their skills.

 

Don't know about the guys at ARMA or Mr Clements but experienced Oriental MA do these type of sword displays unmasked which are aimed at public demos, film work, etc. - the Shaolin Monks & Hong Kong stunt men are examples!
I imagine each technique is well choreographed, rehearsed and mutually agreed upon before the performance.

Louie

 

Well I hope that wasn't an arma sanctioned video otherwise says all kinds of things about lack of care for their membership.
the rumours I heard about mr clements are from a while ago ... wish I could remember the details but there was a lot of comment on the forums at the time about unnecessary injuries following him around.

Even with choreography, you are taking a chance doing stuff without protection. Not quite the same but worth retelling ... Story I heard about 2 bods rapier fencing prepared moves in their hall. either one was too slow or one was a little quicker than agreed but next thing you know one has 3 feet of steel in his stomach. He spend the night in intensive care and his pal spent the night with the local police explaining how it was a fencing accident. In case of accidents ... wear some protective kit!

 

That's kinda like saying a knight that rode into battle without plate armour is braver than a knight with. The point of being a fighter is about killing the other guys without you getting hurt. You don't take stupid pointless risks. If it was choreographed then fine it's a demo. They are claiming it was freeplay, now in the freeplay rules of Glasgow Duellists, you would have a good chance of being very dead without a 1600N mask, that isn't brave that's stupid.

The Bear.

 

Touche.

 

All of those rumours were just that: rumours! All of those old rumours were false (ie. lies) and date to before most of you ever started taking part in WMA. ARMA has an extremely good safety record, probably the best safety record of any major WMA group.

The only actual injury I have ever heard of was John Clements poking his leg with a sword point, a minor injury, and like many martial artists he tore a muscle a couple of years ago. ARMA has never experienced the type of injuries experienced by other groups. If you want to talk about bad safety records then you have to talk about other groups. Such as the group that experienced a broken neck and an eye injury from dagger wasters. Or the group in which one instructor poked another insturctor in the head with a rapier. And no, I'm not going to lookup and link in a lot of old threads, rumours are not worth the time for any of us.


This thread started with a discussion of the high level of martial skill show in the ARMA videos. Let us keep this thread on topic.

 

well Ran, first of all I've been doing WMA for nearly 9 years so I think I've been around for long enough. The stories I heard were around 2000-2005. Mostly it was mr clements doing unto others rather than him doing to himself. Since Stolenbjorn also heard the stories ... its not just me. But you say all the stories are 'lies'. Rather emphatic of you. 1 minutes search on the net throws up the below...

from this page

John Clements, along with Jeff Basham, had traveled to Ashokan, a field campus of the State University of New York in the Catskill Mountains for a demonstration. Clements continued to be generally well received in his travels. This visit, as well, included another of the minor accidents that seemed the haunt so many of his practices and demonstrations.
... there was his partner bent over spewing blood out his mouth, seems that wooden sword was swung just a wee bit too close and caught his friends mouth quite hard, several stitches later that night. The guy was a trooper though; he still went on through the demonstrations with that smashed mouth! while the MAIN guy was mucking it through. It was interesting and I'm sure the fellow knows his stuff, he surely told everyone he did..."

'... to haunt so many of his practices and demonstrations'. Hmm, care to comment?

Secondly we had moved the thread on to how bl**dy dangerous was that unprotected 'freeplay' in the video.

 

It's wasn't "Freeplay" in the true sense - you'll notice there were no real attempts at thrusts - Unlike freeplay with masks - every odd jab is a thrust to the face - these are missing in the unmasked version!

Which makes it controlled sparring!

Louie