KYOKUSHIN - the best karate style ???

Discussion in 'Karate' started by akira2000, Oct 31, 2004.

  1. akira2000

    akira2000 Valued Member

    I am sorry if I didn't formulate my words in the right way. It's not that kickboxer will always win boxer, and not always thai-boxer will win kickboxer, its just that they are more equiped (have more tools),
    thus, the probabiliy that they will win is higher.
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2004
  2. Black Dog

    Black Dog Expressionist

    I do believe that certain styles give you the tools to defeat other styles, but in the end, it's how your train and how hard you do it. My friend who began martial arts at the same time I did went into kyokushin and did rather well while I branched off into different styles. When we sparred, I beat him, but he did get in a lot of good hits. In the end, this Oyama could have been naturally talented or trained really well, but if you keep saying that one style is better than another, then eventually, there would have to be a "best style" which just isn't feasible.
  3. powerof0ne

    powerof0ne Valued Member


    For over 10 years I wanted to do kyokushinkai and would try to emulate it but there wasn't a club/dojo where I lived. I practiced ****o ryu and still do(nidan) and got into muay thai so I could learn good knees and how to leg kick, etc..because I wanted to fight in bare knuckle/knockdown karate which I have(sabaki). I even have a shodan in a art that's a hybrid of kyokushinkai, muay thai, shooto(chokushinkai).
    To make a long story short I finally found a kyokushinkai club and was very dissapointed. Where I live I know much better ****o ryu and shotokan yudansha(in terms of fighting) than these kyokushinkai yudansha. I still think there are awesome Kyokushinkai fighters in the world but the club in my area isn't that great at all. The originator of this thread brought up a funny fact about Oyama beating masters from the "4" original okinawan arts or something to that effect..what are the "4" original okinawan arts? Are you calling ****o ryu, shotokan, goju ryu, and wado ryu these 4 original okinawan arts? When you say master? do you mean founder of the arts? I doubt Oyama would have dreamt of ever challenging Funakoshi, Mabuni, Miyagi, Ohtsuka, etc. The reason why I question you about the "4" okinawan arts is because shotokan is derived from shuri-te but is obviously taught in a Japanes structure..just look at the name of the kata..that's Japanese, not okinawan. Kyokushinkai is a fairly new karate's a hybrid of shotokan, goju ryu, judo, and some wresting(the grappling isn't taught at all schools).
    About Oyama fighting the bulls..yeah he was a bad ass allright but he got maimed really bad by one of these bulls(shocking!) and almost died doing this(even more shocking! :eek: ). I have a lot of respect for many kyokushinkai guys out there like: Francisco Filho, Glaube Feitosa, Nicholas Pettas(broke off and has his own style now), Yamaki(now Yamaki Ryu), Joko Ninomiya(now Enshin), and of course Andy Hug(as most know was seidokaikan before his death)...I've had the pleasure of meeting all mentioned except for Yamaki at one time or another.
  4. powerof0ne

    powerof0ne Valued Member


    Knowing more techniques/having more tools doesn't mean the probability that they will win a fight is higher. There are a lot of bad schools out there that teach hundreds..even thousands of different techniques but don't stress the basics. Guess what? someone from that art loses in a fight because they can't throw a basic jab, gyaku tsuki, mae geri, teep, kao, cross, shuto, yuko geri, kakasho geri, dtae, etc. If you were taught only 5 offensive techniques and defense(how to block/jam/parry) and practiced those 5 offensive techniques for years..You would probably be pretty damn good. Of course you would have to have good footwork, timing, speed, power..Some of the best fighters in the world only throw a few techniques is my point. Don't believe me? Watch some actual Kyokushinkai black belts fight sometime and watch which techniques they're using. Watch K-1..someone like Ray Sefo for example. Watch any karate black belts fight(not counting open tournies that use foam protective padding) and see what techniques they're throwing. The majority of it is going to be basic techniques that they've worked on for years. Why do you think a boxer generally has awesome punching skills compared to a kickboxer/thaiboxer? The truth is which just about everyone is trying to tell you is there isn't one "best style".
  5. akira2000

    akira2000 Valued Member

    So why one that excelled in boxing but know's nothing else (not kicking nor wrestling) never wins in UFC ????????????
  6. Sever

    Sever Valued Member

    Basically because in order to win in MMA you need to be well rounded, you need a standing, clinch and ground game. That isn't knowing "more techniques," that's being competant in different ranges of combat. Hell, if the guy with the most techniques wins, how come we never see ninjutsu people in there anymore?
    However, many MMA competitors use boxing instead of muay thai or kickboxing (Randy Couture, Vitor Belfort, Lee Murray, I could go on) and have had much success. Basically, pure strikers get beaten by grapplers in MMA environments because it's a lot easier to take a striker off his feet and thus out of his game than it is to take a grapplers tools away and a well rounded combat athlete will pretty much always beat either of the "purists". However, if you look at K-1, you will see boxers beating kickboxers and thai boxers and vice versa. A couple of kyokushin and seidokaiken karateka have also had success in this sport.
  7. Bonzai

    Bonzai New Member

    UFC is't real fighting..its a sport event (it has rules) so dont go the way saying UFC is the best because its not! ( i hated when people say such nonsence) :woo:
    as soon as i would be put to the ground i would go for striking tagets like the eyes,groin,ears ect. witch are not allowed in UFC beacuase UFC has rules..

    no to go on topic..

    remember the saying: i dont fear a man who had practiced 10.000 techniqs but i poop my pants for a man who has practiced 1 techniq 10.000 times! :eek:

    think about that...

    about Sensei Oyama i also would like too say somthing...

    he was a great fighter in his time and a true legend but even he often sayed ITS ALL MONKEY BUSINESS!

    one of his best studends (John Bluming) wrote is his book that alot of the big story's where blown up by the media too get attation for the style
    en the reason why Kyokushinkai is so big is because it had good PR.

    no there is no doubt Sensei Oyama was a legendary and most skillfull karateka but like al great martial legends storys are blown up to a point where the almost like gods.

    keep the real from the surreal
    greetz, :)

    Please do not swear, even if the profanity filter masks it - Gaskell
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2004
  8. akira2000

    akira2000 Valued Member

    Do you know what UFC is ??? Cos I think you;re not. UFC it's not a style, it's
    a place where ppl with different styles fight.

    Any way, UFC it's a closest thing to a real fight I know. So if some style will
    work in UFC, it will also in the street .
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2004
  9. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Well gee whizz - I bet nobody had tried THAT with a MMA fighter before :rolleyes:

    Dude - if you can't fight WITHOUT that stuff - you can't fight WITH it.
  10. powerof0ne

    powerof0ne Valued Member


    One of two times I've been in a fight that ended up on the ground the guy I was fighting was fish hooking me, trying to gouge my eyes and was even biting. I mounted him did some strikes but than applied a armbar is when he tried to bite his way out..I kicked my heel over his face a few times and ko'd him. I didn't resort to eye gouging, biting, fish hooking and was able to beat him. A lot grapplers/mma/nhb guys have been in street fights..especially in Brazil(look at Ryan Gracie).
  11. tommy

    tommy New Member

    couldn't agree with you less. haha seriously. When you are talking about winning or should define that a bit. Are you talking about a controlled tourney fight?

    Also, I agree it is great to "compare" styles. There is so much to learn from all of them. All I am suggesting is that no style is "BETTER" than an other. If you are definging "BETTER" by who will win ina tournement fight, then you have a slightly more interesting case, but just slightly. Anything can happen in a fight, even in a tournement fight.

    There are too many variables to make a blanket statement like the one you made in my opinion.
  12. berador

    berador New Member

    No one style is better than another (as stated above), personally i'm excersizing Kyokushin-Kai, but any style that fits the individuals soul is the best!!! Remember that the goal of MA is to reach balance of the soul, NOT to kick ass!!!
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2004
  13. MartialArtsSnob

    MartialArtsSnob New Member

    And now to really stir the pot......did you know that Oyama was Korean. SHhhhhhh
  14. Hiroji

    Hiroji laugh often, love much

    hey is it true that Oyama killed a guy with one blow? but he was cleared for self defence reasons? he also quit MA training because of this for a while and worked on the widows farm to help her out? i think the guy he killed was a suspected rapist too? anybody read this?
  15. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    *Raises hand!

    Memememememe - I did I did I did.

    Born as "Yung Hi Choi" - his Goju Ryu teach "So Nei Chu" was also Korean.
  16. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter

    Did anyone mention that my dad is bigger than your dad?!? :D
  17. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Oh no his is not!!!!!
  18. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    I thought he was a Japanese born in Korea ?
  19. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

  20. Hiroji

    Hiroji laugh often, love much

    whan mas was 25 he moved to japan to become a aviator. thats when he did judo.

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