Kwah Jahng Nim (any spelling will do)?

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by tulsa, Jun 28, 2012.

  1. tulsa

    tulsa Valued Member

    Just wanting to know what all your thoughts where on what the title of Kwahn Jaghn nim means to you. Some people use it as another name for Master. Some use it for the title of a school owner. What so you all think it means and why?

    :evil:
     
  2. Gi.

    Gi. New Member

    Grandmaster, there should only be one within the style.
     
  3. klaasb

    klaasb ....

    a kwanjangnim is the owner of a kwan (school).
    Since in Korea you usually don't open your own school before you are a 5th dan or higher, it is a term that is usually given to people with a 5th dan or higher who operate their own school. My teacher is a 9th dan under the IHF and we call him kwanjangnim as well.

    To me a kwanjangnim is a master, a sabeomnim is a teacher. I find the term grandmaster kinda ridiculous. But since it is there now, I agree with Gi. only one within a style/federation.
     
  4. Gi.

    Gi. New Member

    Sorry but Sahboonnim should be the term for master Instructor over the rank of 4th dan. I use the term Grand Master because it should be a very exclusive thing (8th or 9th dan) but with people breaking away and "doing there own thing" these days they often call their selves GMs at 4th or 5th dan which traditionally was only just a master or Sahboonim.
     
  5. tulsa

    tulsa Valued Member

    But what is the true translation of these titles?

    In the WKSA they say they mean =

    Kuk Sa Nim ; Grandmaster (10th degree Black Belt) {literally: National Teacher}
    Chong Kwan Jang Nim ; Chiefmaster
    (9th degree Black Belt)
    Kwan Jang Nim ; Master (5th, 6th,
    7th, 8th degree Black Belt)
    Sa Beom Nim ; Instructor
    (4th degree Black Belt)
    Bu Sa Beom Nim ; Deputy Instructor
    (3rd degree Black Belt)
    Gyo Sa Nim ; Assistant Instructor
    (2nd degree Black Belt)
    Jo Gyo Nim ; Instructor-in-Training
    (1st degree Black Belt)

    Then in other Martial Arts they mean something else. Who can translate these. and by the way google translate does not help!:evil:
     
  6. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    Tulsa, you have left the WKSA so why do you continue to post erroneous information concerning them?

    Why don't you tell us about what you are doing and what these titles mean to your group, aka, KiCKs. Btw, did your organization form an affiliation with muye24ki.com or did you simply steal their pics?
     
  7. tulsa

    tulsa Valued Member

    Vegas Vegas Vegas, It seems like you are just trying to bait. I have not stated anything "erroneous" at all. Just facts! This post is about titles and the meaning of a certain title that has what seems allot of different meanings to allot of people. If you are unable to chime in with constructive thoughts I would be really appreciative that you just say nothing.

    So now since that is done, back to the post and question at hand...:evil:
     
  8. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Well said. Let's stick to the topic please.
     
  9. tulsa

    tulsa Valued Member

    Wikipedia states:
    "The actual Korean word for a student's master is suseung-nim. This term is only used by the student when speaking to the instructor. The student is hakseang.[6] (학생 HakSaeng 學生)
    Many Korean titles are often mistakenly translated as "grandmaster" (태사님 TaeSaNim 太師님). Sonseang-nim (선생님 SeonSaengNim 先生님) is a general term for a teacher of any subject as well as a respectful form of the word “you”. Martial arts instructors (in Korea 4th Dan and above) are called Sabom-nim (사범님 SaBeomNim 師範님). Since Black Belts of any level in the United States may teach martial arts, the title sabom-nim (사범님 SaBeomNim 師範님) is used by some when talking about American martial arts instructors that might not yet be 4th Dan.[6]
    The term kwan jang-nim (KwanJangNim 舘長님 or 館長님) is used for the owner of a martial arts school. A chae yook kwan is a fitness center. A jang (장 Jang 長) is the general term for a head, chief or director. Nim (님 Nim) is a suffix of respect for a person. In the United States a black belt might not necessarily be a master but still might be the kwan jang-nim (관장님 KwanJangNim 舘長님 or 館長님) owner/operator of the school. The head or chief of several kwan jang (관장 KwanJang 舘長 or 館長) is the chong kwan jang (총관장 ChongKwanJang 總舘長 or 總館長). The hae jang-nim (회님 장HwoiJangNim 會長님) is the president or head of the association."

    When I put the Korean hangul KwanJang in Google Translation it comes up as "Director". Then when I put the hungul in for SaBeomNim it comes up as "The Masters". This is why I am kinda confused when people call 5th degree black belts Master and not 4th degrees. :evil:
     
  10. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    You are wrong, as usual. Those are not WKSA titles. In Joo Suh is the Chiefmaster so why are you trying to demote him? This is not a new thing either, he has been the Chiefmaster for over 10 years.

    Again, let us know what these titles mean to you in YOUR organization instead of spewing erroneous facts about another organization.
     
  11. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    As far as I can tell being an outsider, the opening question was simple.

    If there are mistakes, then be helpful and correct them.

    If you know the answers to the questions, then post them.

    Stop trying to turn this into something else.
     
  12. tulsa

    tulsa Valued Member

  13. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

  14. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

  15. tulsa

    tulsa Valued Member

    Wait, the titles have changed???

    Now they are:

    Su Suhk Kahn Jahng Nim for Senior Executive Master (9th dan)
    Suhn Im Kwahn Jhng Nim for Executive Master (8th dan)
    Ji Do Kwahn Jahng Nim for Senior Master (7th dan)
    Joo Im Kwahn Jahng Nim for Head Master (6th dan)
    Pyung Kwahn Jahng Nim for (5th dan)

    It seems that the WKSA has changed their rank titles. But they have not updated their entire Web Site. My over look.

    This updated info still does not help in my original question.:evil:
     
  16. tulsa

    tulsa Valued Member

    So Vegas what do you think Kwahn Jahng Nim means? What does it represent? What rank should it be used at? :evil:
     
  17. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    I see that in Kicks,

    9th dan is Superman master
    8th dan is Batman master
    7th dan is Aquaman master
    6th dan is Flash master
    5th dan is Green Lantern master
    4th dan is Mighty Mouse
    3rd dan is Mickey Mouse
    2nd dan is Minnie Mouse
    1st dan is Mouseketeer
     
  18. tulsa

    tulsa Valued Member

    Vegas, are you trying to defame me? I personally like that list. it is funny and the only thing I would change is Aquaman should be down on the bottom and Mighty Mouse should take his place. :evil:
     
  19. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    So in Kicks, Aquaman is 1st dan and Mighty Mouse is 7th dan? But then who is 4th dan? Does Aquaman call the Flash kwangjangnim?
     
  20. tulsa

    tulsa Valued Member

    You know better than that. In fact KiCKS is not a Martial Art Style or even a School, it is a group of Martial Artist that want to keep the TKMA quality as high as possible. It does not give out rank. We are a brotherhood that encourages each other to be the best at what we do (TKMA). and to answer your question I think you should just move Aquaman down to the bottom, move Mighty Mouse up to his place then adjust the lower one up one. :evil:
     

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