Kuntaw Arnis?

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by VoltAmpere, Aug 2, 2005.

  1. VoltAmpere

    VoltAmpere New Member

    Does anyone know the history of "Kuntaw Arnis"? I've only head of the group recently [last week?], it's based here in Angeles City in Pampanga. The chief instructor is PunongGuro Roberto Bogs Lao. Can anyone shed some light?
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2005
  2. soulguru

    soulguru New Member

    hmmm. this may be just a "name" to connote a 'hybrid' style... as it is, when one says "kuntaw", it pertains to the Sulu arts of the Tausugs notably; this is a very combative concoction of indigenous arts of Mindanao amalgamated w/ Southeast Asian Silat styles...

    try doing research on this and you'll find this quite interesting- mindanao/sul has a lot to offer in terms of FMA/Silat... i should know- i practise it...
     
  3. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    from what i know, maybe red may answer this better is that kuntao over here is a filipinized adaptation of chinese southern kung fu. usually i'd hear of kuntao silat which combines the empty hands of kuntao and the bladework of silat. maybe kuntaw arnis is the same...just different.
     
  4. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    Did anyone mention "Red"?
    Hello VoltAmpere, I encountered a Kuntaw group in Angeles City as early as 1982. The group must have been operating even longer than that. The members were active in point-system inter-club (mixed styles) matches held inside the Clark Air Base. They looked more like Karate guys. Maybe this was because they wore Karate-type uniforms with KUNTAW printed in the back, or because they were fighting according to the rules. The style didn't look like the Moro Kuntaw I know now. I tell you what, why not just pay them a visit at their club. I am sure they will candidly answer all your questions.
     
  5. VoltAmpere

    VoltAmpere New Member

    Yes, i did visit them a few days ago. I didn't notice any "Kuntaw" in their moves/techniques. Everything was arnis, even the arm and wrist-locks that were supposed to be Aikido. It's possible that this group is descended from the Kuntaw group you met in 1982. The chief instructor said he taught in Clark Air Base from 1987-1991. I will not mention any details regarding the group, out of respect, since they have no representatives here in MAP who can correct me if i accidentally post anything erroneous about them.
     
  6. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    Since you can access the Kuntaw group, maybe you could ask them why they are using the name "Kuntaw'. I am very interested in their reply. I have encountered a few groups that label their art Kuntaw. Some of these groups originated from the Bicol region. Some years ago, I asked my Kapampangann friends about this group and they too didn't know where the name came from. Apparently, there is no Kapampangan martial art called Kuntaw. As long as there is no malice in the information that you post, and you are quite sure of what you heard, I see no reason why you can't post statements from the group.
     
  7. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    Are you familiar with the moves of Kuntaw? I think it would be nice if you could post some things about native Kapampangan martial arts, since the Kapampangans were often used by the Spanish to fight for them. I find it hard to imagine that there is no native fighting art, considering that many Spanish commanders considered the Macabebes as the most reliable fighters. Is the Kuntaw a new form, a hybrid, a recent import or a remnant of an old line of native fighting? The Bicolanos I have talked to claim some link to an ancient group of Moro immigrants to their province, and hence their Kuntaw seems to be linked to some Moro art. When the Spanish first came to Manila, they fought against Muslim settlers who had Kapmpangan allies. Probably there was some Kuntaw practitioners. But if this is the case, this will be the first time I have heard a confirmation. Maybe you, VoltAmpere, will be the first to discover that, hahahaha. Good luck!
    By the way, I have a Kapampangan friend who is into martial arts research. He lives in San Fernando. If you want to link up with him, give me a PM.
     
  8. VoltAmpere

    VoltAmpere New Member

    No, unfortunately I'm not familiar with the movements in Kuntaw, my master and I only duscussed it, what it is, what it's not, etc... It is supposed to be from Mindanao, and the moves are derived from the movement of animals. Kuntaw is supposed to be an ancient [or semi-ancient?] system, though the name may be fairly recent.

    I'm not familiar with any capampangan martial art, I learned arnis in Quezon City. All i know of the contributions of the capampangans is Sinawali and its derivatives. It is possible, although I don't think it's documented, that the Macabebes used a form similar to what we now call as Arnis/Eskrima/Kali, since the blade/spear and shield is the most common implement available, even then. Macabebe is only a small area in the whole of Pampanga.

    Though, it is possible that Kuntaw managed to reach Central Luzon because the original inhabitants (as in Manila) were Muslims.

    I'm [and so is my master] just certain that the instrtuctor knows a different form, but erroneously calls it Kuntaw. All the moves he showed me were purely arnis. In fact, they were "Modern Arnis". From posture, stiking, patterns, etc... absolutely no sign of any influence from other arts. In fact he moves exactly like our grandmaster, who was a student of Master Remy Presas. The instructor is affiliated with Master Ernie, Master Remy's brother [the two factions are traditionally not in good terms with each other].
     
  9. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    Allow me to correct you. The Muslims in Luzon were a minority. Even in Manila, the Muslims were just a minority, although they were a strategic group. The Sultan of Brunei, Sultan Bolkiah, also known as Nakhoda Ragam (the singing captain), maintained a foothold in Luzon when the Spanish arrived. Today, during state ceremonies, you can see the ceremonial bodyguards of the Sultan of Brunei carrying familiar weapons such as the Kampilan that is found only in Mindanao these days. I guess after centuries of colonization, the original Muslim influence in Manila and Luzon has been stamped out. It is unlikely that the Kuntaw you see in Angeles City is a native Kapampangan art.
     
  10. VoltAmpere

    VoltAmpere New Member

    Hmmm... learning something new everyday :)
    I always had a notion that the Muslims in Luzon were a lot, but couldn't reconcile that thought with the fact that the majority of Luzon was relatively easier to conquer, because if they were Muslims, then we would currently be like Mindanao today. I guess from my readings they just appeared more prominent [or well known] such as Lakan Dula of Pampanga, and the Etymology of Manila being claimed [I haven't had time to confirm or refute] to be "Iman Allah"...
    I don't think the "kuntaw" I saw was really Kuntaw based on the explanation I was given of what Kuntaw is. Like I said, all the movements were exact parallels of Modern Arnis, that I didn't see any non-arnis movements at all during the session, if it was in fact a melding of Kuntaw and Arnis. In fact, I don't even think there's Kuntaw in Pampanga.
     
  11. gurobuzz

    gurobuzz Valued Member

    Kuntaw Arnis

    Boggs is a well respected member of the Kuntaw family. What he is teaching is a hybrid system of Kuntaw lima lima and other stick fighting systems. His lineage is Maharlika Kuntaw/ Kuntaw ng Pilipinas- This system of Kuntaw has been developing into a more karate like art.

    Brian Smith
     
  12. Ular Sawa

    Ular Sawa Valued Member


    Welcome to MAP Guro Buzz. I do believe I had the pleasure of meeting you at a seminar some years ago in East Lansing.
     
  13. tauhid_87

    tauhid_87 Valued Member

    Boggs is a well respected member of the Kuntaw family. What he is teaching is a hybrid system of Kuntaw lima lima and other stick fighting systems. His lineage is Maharlika Kuntaw/ Kuntaw ng Pilipinas- This system of Kuntaw has been developing into a more karate like art.

    Hello gurobuzz, I am intrigue by the history of your Maharlika kuntaw / Kuntaw ng Pilipinas, can you please elaborate clearly the history of this kuntaw? who is the founder or Guru ( the original)? I am from the south Philippines and met lots of kuntaw guru and students. I just want to know....... :)
     
  14. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    Hello Tauhid,
    Welcome back. I have been finally reunited with the Manila Kuntaw group. Ya, I met the brothers already.

    Hello Gurobuzz,
    Could you also please make Boggs more well-known to us? A bit of history, cultural background,... please. Thanks.
     
  15. gurobuzz

    gurobuzz Valued Member

    I trained in the Philippines under GM Carlito Lanada- his history of his art is at
    http://www.kuntaw.com/history.htm
    Over the years it has changed - so I am not sure who to belive/ what to believe anymore.
     
  16. gurobuzz

    gurobuzz Valued Member

    I am not sure of his history- I just know that people in our group speak highly of him.
     
  17. gurobuzz

    gurobuzz Valued Member

    I understand that Maharlika Kuntaw has a history that comes from Tausug Kuntaw- But, I have never seen Tausug Kuntaw and , unfortunately, I have had no luck in tracing that part of the history down.
     
  18. tauhid_87

    tauhid_87 Valued Member

    Thanks gurobuzz, hello red, Halman text me what is happening there last sunday,Amazing I wish I was there but Halman is a master and also the other group in manila so there is no need for me to be there. Quite busy at work.

    I am always interest in other kuntaw in the Philippines whether in the north or south in doesnt matter, hoping to hear stories, legend etc anything about kuntaw. Kuntaw arnis, I know kuntaw but not arnis or any weapon except for barong thats my favorite. :)
     
  19. soulguru

    soulguru New Member

    hello red, nice sunday thingy we did back then... tauhid_87, glad to know you're alive. can't wait to see you again- and test you. Halman says you been practicing, so its better if we practice soon. its best to share your knowledge w/ the Manila Team- right? oh well, me, the boys, & halman currently enjoy practice- & lotsa coffee...

    i miss Sulu- very quaint. by the way, as part of ths thread, i'd just like to say that the "kuntao" styles i've seen coming from the visayas/bicol are indeed karate-like in nature; unlike our Kuntaw-Silat: very fluid, flowing, dancelike...
     
  20. RedBagani

    RedBagani Valued Member

    I think Filipino Kuntaw is one of the most misunderstood FMA. So many are appropriating the name. Mimickry is the highest form of flattery?
     

Share This Page