Kukishin ryu bojutsu

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Dreamstrike, Jun 1, 2020.

  1. Dreamstrike

    Dreamstrike New Member

    Bo self-training. In the following clip below @ 04:32 we have the flurry of spins. How useful is this? If you think it is, do you have any reference material to help improve the transitions? What aspect is useful in your mind? Many thanks!

    P.S, anyone have any more information on the teacher, where the old footage can be found. Thx again

     
  2. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I think the spinning shown at 04.40 is just posing

    There are a few forms in kukishin that use the spinning methods, but these are either a) specific deceptions and suddenly change before a rhythm is established or b) methods to keep multiple opponents at bay for a moment
    To my eyes neither of these apply to the movements in the video

    The basic strikes etc look OK, but it kinda gets silly from 04.40 onwards
     
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  3. Dreamstrike

    Dreamstrike New Member

    Thx Dunc, I've always been on the fence with the excessive spinning. On the one hand it's perhaps a useful training tool for dexterity and eye hand coordination. Sort of like ladder drills for your feet. On the other hand, it seem to be a waste of energy and when it goes wrong its quite spectacular, at least with me anyway.

    In the mean time, somewhat serendipitously, this came up in my feed. Some more practical and fun spinning and from the Bujinkan proper if anyone else is looking for some home training ideas.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  4. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    That was OK until 1.20.....
    Why oh why do people get carried away with spinning sticks and start making stuff up?
    At 2.30 you can see the method he's applying with his grips for the basic furri. It's wrong.....
    He then gets all fancy and makes up more stuff again

    The core principle is that you can control the stick and change into a strike, block or kamae at any point in time

    Basic furri at 14.55



    And the version with a spear (the hand movement is clearly shown) at 12.48
     
  5. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

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  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Hontai Yoshin-ryu Jujutsu Part 1 by Guy Buyens

    It's Inoue Koichi sensei present soke of Hontai Yoshin Ryu jujutsu, and he looks very good.

    When things are different to how things are taught in the bujinkan, it doesn't mean it's "wrong" it just means it's different.
     
  7. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    This is a fair point & I agree with it
    Different and effective is a good thing and I think we should all do more to embrace it
    Being a soke (or shihan or whatever) doesn't mean you're infallible 'though

    But to my eyes the spinning shown in this clip after 4.45 doesn't really serve a purpose other than perhaps to intimidate

    The furri at 5.22:
    Screenshot 2020-06-06 at 11.11.36.png
    He's holding his hands quite high which reduces the threat to striking his opponent's hands (which is pretty much the only place that can be attacked by the furri)
    In order to generate the power in the spins he's having to pull the bo to his side which creates an opening for the swordsman

    The spin behind his back at 5.24:
    Screenshot 2020-06-06 at 11.12.13.png
    The movements he makes before passing the bo behind his back (furri in this case) haven't served to create much distance which is different to the principles I've been taught, and seems dangerous to me
    He also moves his spine forwards to make the pass work, which is normal, but again seems strange to do this without moving your legs/feet back at least

    The subsequent strike at 5.26
    Screenshot 2020-06-06 at 11.14.48.png
    The strike is done moving forwards in a very open and exaggerated way - which again seems dangerous to me unless you've created a lot of distance in which case your strikes are telegraphed if you do them this way

    The spinning transition at 5.34
    Screenshot 2020-06-06 at 11.16.02.png
    This is, in my view, an example of spinning the stick in a way that a small disruption would knock it out of your hands and there doesn't seem to be a gain from the spin. It doesn't generate any power and actually the follow on strike would be more powerful, less open etc if he just transitioned directly into it

    I'd just caveat that the old traditional weapons aren't really a focus for me so I'm open to the possibility that he's doing something beyond my amateurish comprehension
     
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  8. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I think given Occam's razor, I know which one of those two options I support.

    No offense intended.
     
  9. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    All you need to do is place your weapon in the arc of the spin and it is like putting a stick in the spokes of a bicycle. I can't see any use for this kind of spinning beyond the aesthetic.
     
    Dunc likes this.
  10. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Eh?
     
  11. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I was agreeing with your point, sorry badly worded and too snarky.
     
    Dunc likes this.
  12. Dreamstrike

    Dreamstrike New Member

    Interesting discussion, thanks all :) The Takamatsu Sensei video is excellent, great find. From the memorial DVD? Thx for the breakdown and your link Duncan. :)

    It's interesting to contrast the conservation of energy and almost laid back approach of Takamatsu Sensei, verses the showmanship of the others. I think the dexterity is fun all the same, fun but not effective. I find there is quite a bit of that in many modern martial arts, what looks cool, but has no real purpose. Perhaps because so many have never really have to use them outside of the Dojo.
     

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