Kuk Sool Won franchise

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by tatar, Dec 15, 2008.

  1. Quozl

    Quozl Valued Member

     
  2. trailblazer

    trailblazer Valued Member

    We all know what happens with a franchise: no name, expendable, nobody teachers. My friends are very upset. I'll stick with my kick-boxing and self-defense classes at the gym, thanks.
     
  3. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Dittos. May whatever winter solstice festivity you celebrate, be a joyful and happy one!



    Now, YearsOfHArdWork, I have to ask what the "L" stands for in your nifty little graphic masterpiece? "League" perhaps?


    You don't get it do you, Quozl? The students don't make KSW, nor do they make the WKSA, however they do make a school, and that school along with many, many others are what makes the WKSA (KS or KSW is the art itself, IMO, and therefore what is taught in a KSW school). WKSA merely refers to the affiliation of all these schools, which by virtue of such affiliation, acknowledge themselves as subsidiaries or ancillaries of the organization.

    Admittedly, the terms can get confusing, but consider the phrase MA school or TKD school, where there is no blanket MA or TKD "business corporation" claiming copyright/trademark on the content of what's being taught at said MA or TKD schools. It's been proven that KS (viewed as a MA) cannot be copyrighted or trademarked. This is why the franchise thing is being pushed (more like SHOVED down the throats of USA schoolowners). Contractual obligations set forth in the document will cement the rights they couldn't get the courts to award. FWIW.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2008
  4. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned


    Well, not to poke or needle anyone, but this is why, even as a non-KSW person I have taken so much time to ask questions about attitudes and policies in this particular area of MAP. If you notice some of my posts in other areas of MAP you will note, I think, that I have something of a short-fuse about the sorts of vapid issues that are repeatedly raised. However, as one who has invested a couple of decades in the Hapkido arts, I have become very particular about who I sahre a mat with anymore. For that reason I tend to ask penetrating questions and then ask about the answers I get.

    When I was first beginning in the MA I could afford to be casual about organizations as a beginner has very little to risk. Now, as a "veteran" (as it were) I know what it is that I am seeking and have no interest in being side-tracked by politics or commerce.

    If I am understanding things so far, we are discussing an art constucted by SUH In Hyuk for the purposes of representing an overview of Korean martial tradition. Personally I have my doubts on that score, but thats for another thread. What I am hearing now is that this constructed art is now on a path towards increasingly tighter access and control. To my mind what this sounds like is that SUH In Hyuk apparently built a castle in the air and his family now intend to rent out rooms. The crux of the deal seems to be that the address will be enough to make people submit to the lease. :rolleyes:

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
     
  5. nym

    nym Valued Member

    No, the above does not matter (too personal) and yet for the people who do not know the brother’s parentage it will,(can give them an idea why all so different) I think its best left alone.
    As Seo said in his post to unknown-kjn, Sung Jin was trained in Korea so will (I hope) have a less of a western way of doing things.
     
  6. Onatop

    Onatop Valued Member

    quote "My one and only question is when did we stop the devotion to learning the martial Arts System that is KSW, and ensuring that what we do is to the very best of our ability, and when did we become a business to sell a brand of martial arts to the masses? Something seems to have gotten lost here, and I am not sure what it is" end of quote.

    This is a great question and was were I wanted to get at. In my 25 years f training in Kuk Sool I never had to worry about about polices and the WKSA and I can care less about it, because is about KUK SOOL, not about buiness. I did learn the all fashion way. The respect and the discipline are for the martial art itself (KUK SOOL) not to a money making machine institution or organization or association. Just to give you an idea; our seminars were completely FREE and it was in a mountain of a farm for a week at a time and training 8 ours a day with little or no rest and my master (original Korean Master with over 40 years training in KUK SOOL) never charged for that, just the tuition and those students who couldn't afford the tuition had a scholarship as long as they were committed to learn, so as you can imagine, it was about the martial art not a bout an association, that is why I am sad to see what KUK SOOL WON has become, like SaBumNim very well put it in his statement about the black belts and masters promotions and now the franchise deal
     
  7. YearsOfHArdWork

    YearsOfHArdWork Valued Member

    Yes, it's the National Kuk Sool League. :cool:

    Merry Christmas, or Kwanzaa, or Happy Hanukkah if the case may be...

    Oh, for comedy relief....so we have names (for new organizations...:)

    Independent Kuk Sool (IKS)
    National Kuk Sool League (NKSL)
    Kuk Sool Federation (KSF)

    Any other suggestions? :dunno:

    Oh course, these suggestions are just comedy, with the small hope that the WKSA will do the right thing and don't close itself down. Because I'd hate to see life imitate art and one of these names become a real organization.
     
  8. YearsOfHArdWork

    YearsOfHArdWork Valued Member

    :topic:

    Does any one know who the webmaster of the WKSA website is? I've been sending emails to webmaster@kuksoolwon.com concerning the website, however, they've gone unanswered. Did the webmaster quit or something?
     
  9. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    OK, well and good...... but I am with Onatop.

    I have trained long and hard, honored my KWAN, done my research. Yes, I have seen people of lesser knowlege and ability garner higher rank but thats not a problem for me. What the problem for me is that now I am getting pretty close to the top of the known pile of information, and from here on up to the summit there are fewer and fewer informed individuals and a whole lot more people who have basically just made **** up. Finding the dedicated folk who want to learn and preserve authentic Korean traditions are getting pretty damn few and far between. In fact, more often than not I have people challenging and dissuading me to bugger-off rather than continue to bang-on.

    From what I am seeing the KSW people are mired down in the same sort of business issues as any common grocery-store and I don't the impression that authenticity of what they do is a super-high priority unless all the business crap is cared for first. This isn't why I became involved in the KMA in the first place. And it saddens me to know that when one scrapes the icing off any of these organizations, the core concern is all about who holds the power and who gets the money. FWIW.

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
     
  10. YearsOfHArdWork

    YearsOfHArdWork Valued Member

    I totally understand what you are talking about. Even though I'm your KS junior, at 11 years of training, I got into this because I always wanted to take martial arts - - - not because of a "brand," flashy uniforms, big schools, or anything to that degree.

    At our school, for the same reasons of the above quote, we give away scholarships to youth in our community. HQ, however, doesn't care - - - they want $$$ even t the degree that our local community will suffer - - - that' not the martial arts way.

    Yep. And you know, there really isn't anything wrong with their current business model; with the exception that people left and they are heart broken because they lost the ability to "control" the human essence. This whole franchise thing is NOT about money, it's about controling people EVEN AFTER THEY HAVE DECIDED TO LEAVE THE ORGANIZATION.

    There problem is they have no way to do that, so, as to the remainder of people, they are trying to use this agreement to do so.

    The only thing its going to do is start to destroy WKSA.
     
  11. nym

    nym Valued Member

    I hear what your are saying yearsofhardwork there are a few instructors in the world today where they do it for the art rather for the $ , This is what Kuk Sa Nim used to be about, but as everyone says its changed. My instructor helps everyone he can and as a result says as long as he can pay the rent the rest does not matter, how many can say that, and as you say HQ have no idea and if they do they do not care, because as Jerry Mc Quire says “SHOW ME THE MONEY” (sorry about the spelling, one too many Eggnog)
     
  12. nym

    nym Valued Member

    Hello dave is that you dave ?
     
  13. davefly76

    davefly76 Valued Member

    are you referring to me, nym?
     
  14. nym

    nym Valued Member

    yes dave only havein fun league of gentlemen mate X X X
     
  15. nym

    nym Valued Member

    You Know all, its Christmas, a day of hope for the world s and there's alot worse going on
     
  16. nym

    nym Valued Member

    come someone say something------pppppppplllllllleeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeee xx
     
  17. davefly76

    davefly76 Valued Member

    well, nym you seem to know who i am but i don't have a clue who you are. email me if you wish.
     
  18. nym

    nym Valued Member

    Well I’m a bit of a mystery Dave, all everyone needs to know is K S W is very important to me, and my friends in it. I may not post what everyone wants to hear but it will always be the truth.
    On a different note how Sad are we doing this tonight HO HO HO
     
  19. Onatop

    Onatop Valued Member

    I know for a fact they don't care. And as I said before "Instructors should be able to make a living", that being said if if more instructors teach they way martial arts are suppose to be taught or like in Yearsofhardwork's school or the way I did learn "MONEY WILL COME" and the school will be successful.

    I did not learn KUK SOOL in the states and that is not say there aren't very talented people here that are willing to practice real martial art.
     
  20. nym

    nym Valued Member

    Onatop your spot on if you show you LOVE what you are teaching be it K S W or crochet (which I enjoy) the money comes because the students FEEL THE LOVE.
     

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