Here's a problem. Some school owners were not allowed to renew their existing license, as such, they are expired. :lowblow: Those laws are out the door if you don't have a renewal.
No, we're good until the end of 09, however, I know a few people that Sa Mo Nim told, "don't worry, you're in good standing, we are going to be switching to the new system soon, so we are not renewing the old licenses." So, currently, there are a lot of old people whose license is already expired.
If they are in California, they might be able to push the angle that all schools must be under the same agreement. I don't expire until 2009 either. Therefore as I understand it they can't really legally do anything until we are all ready to switch. This whole Group A, B, C thing is not legal in California either so I don't know what they are going to do about that. KSN may feel he is forced to do a franchise for legal reasons, but there is no reason that the terms need to be so one sided. I sincerely hope that HQ has change of heart. The agreement as is, is simply not acceptable.
I thought I had asked a question about comparing this franchising approach to that of the ATA. Maybe I messed up and only thought I did. All the same does anyone have any comments about such a comparison? How about the approach taken by the WHRDA? Comments? Best Wishes, Bruce
I agree, and perhaps the most egregious one-sidedness rears it's ugly head in the non-compete agreement (NCA). I can't blame the WKSA for seeking a 'good deal' for themselves, but if a school's region is limited to 5 miles (2 miles for PT schools), then quintupling that (25 mi.) for the NCA is overdoing it IMO. Doubling it should be FAIR enough, meaning the non-compete area should be reduced to only 10 miles (with no time restriction, since it may be the ONLY thing someone is able to do to make ends meet -- can you say "economic downturn"?). I mean, if you haven't been doing anything but running your own MA business for quite a few years, how are you supposed to 'fill in the gaps' on a résumé when you start looking for a non-MA related job? (let's not get into a debate about 'crossover' skills utilized by entrepreneurs, okay?) Of course, stipulating that you can't TAKE any students with you is understandable, but should any students elect to go with you voluntarily, then the NCA should include language that protects you from prosecution in that event (proof is easily obtained via a simple signed form by the student/s). Also, if you own the building, they should not be able to usurp the premises via a sublet unless maybe it's for a short time, say 3 months -- that's sufficient time to look elsewhere if they want to try and retain the location (meaning any students not wanting to follow you, not your building/property/real estate). The right to 'steal' any innovations you might design is also probably another item that needs to be reworked (at least stealing is what I call it when the CONTRACT forces you to "hand over" any such inventions/innovations that you come up with all on your own, with NO compensation whatsoever, and the same contract also states that the franchisor can redistribute it --or sell it-- at a profit). I understand this clause to an extent, as I had a cousin who waited until retirement to patent a unique system of rowing a small boat, that utilized aluminum tubing and some gears or pulleys. He is an avid fresh water fisherman, so he originally came up with the idea for his own personal use. The only problem was that he worked for ALCOA, and they had a similar clause written into their employee contract, so if he had filed a patent for the mechanism prior to retirement, ALCOA would have LEGALLY been able to commandeer his invention for themselves. So perhaps this clause should be rewritten to reflect that a franchisee is not prohibited from being granted certain rights as the inventor/innovator, at least allowing for some form of ROYALTY compensation. I don't think that franchising the WKSA schools is a bad idea, just not with the current document as it now stands.
How is that so? I have a friend who is an Instructor in California. I'd like her to get that information. (It would probably make sence to send it to all of the California Instructors. I agree. There is no problem doing a Franchise as long as it makes sense - - - this, as written, doesn't make any sense at all. It seems as the "over did it" on every point and on every matter. The NCA is an example. What if, like in our city a river runs through it. We should be able to go on the other side of the river and open a school regardless of mileage because people do not regularly travel back and forth for services due to the river. Furthermore, the invention part. Don't they know that when you are employed by a company, that's why they have rights to inventions because they feel that since you used their equipment, offices, supplies, etc. to make the invention, that is why its theirs. In this case, however, we are using our equipments, etc., as such, inventions should be ours - - - end of story. Did you see the 12 way you can be in breach of the agreement? They are so vague and broad that if they get mad and hold a grudge, they can "create" a reason and you'd suddenly be in breach. For an example, if you don't pay in 10 days. There's been times we've sent money in and have delivery confirmation, and they'd claim that they didn't receive it. They are just too unreliable to allow that clause to stay. Or how about if one of your investors file bankruptcy - - - you lose your school. How is that your fault? So if we have 20 investors and one of them file bankruptcy, we lose the school? That's wrong. This thing needs a lot of work. They should wait and don't rush it. They should be planning trips to Korea, not planning to shut WKSA down.
That is simply the law in California. Take auto dealerships for instance. For a given manufacturer they all have the same terms. The way they get around it is to offer kickbacks on volume. Everyone has a chance to get those kickbacks, but only the high volume successful dealerships do. The trouble is you can't have different terms based on loyalty. I'm no lawyer so maybe I am not paraphrasing well what was told to me.
This is exactly what I was thinking when I first saw new "franchise agreement". The WKSA is turning into ATA. ATA is set up as a franchise, making school owners soley teach TKD, only buy their stuff, make their students go to their tournaments, and anything else that generates oodles and oodles of money. This has been a long time comming. With the huge influx of black belts with no skills, and masters that haven't mastered anything but sucking up to Alex Suh, the WKSA wants to set its self up as a money machine. The WKSA is corrupt, the Head Quarters masters only want more and more money and care nothing for the art! Instructors cant afford this, wont afford this!! This is not happening because of Kuk Sa Nym, this is soley being brought about by the hands of Alex Suh. I want to know why no one isn't saying anything about this to them? They (Alex and his cohort of masters) are abusing their rank and position to force instructors to give them more money. THEY'RE SELFISH! Why aren't the few good people left like Barry Harmon saying anything? Alex has taken over and this is the peak of what he is doing. I know you are reading this head quarters, so Alex Suh, Barry Harmon, John Ives, and what ever other masters....... PLEASE STOP! You're destroying yourselves from the inside out!!!
wow! you sure took off the gloves on that statement. i sure hope you have the armour for the backlash, and i am not meaning on this forum. but you are correct on a lot of what you said, my hats off to you for havin the imagination and cohonas to say such a thing. as i said before, i really feel for those instructors and masters that HAVE dedicated a lot of their life and sacrificed and trained and sweat and bled for the association to have what appears to be happening happen. it never is a good thing when you give and give and give and give to have the other side take and take and take and take. i wish all those the best that have given so much of their time and effort. again, i hope you all have a merry christmas and a wonderful holiday season.
Hi everyone. I been reading the postings for the last few day and to me a lot of you have express very good and strong opinions over the franchise matter. The one thing I have not seen and I apologize if I just overlooked it is; When or where it stop to be the martial art we have come to love and after 25 years of training is just part of your life not a business or a corporation or a franchise. Does this franchise deal means that we no longer have a Grand Master but a CEO? and if so there goes the respect and discipline we have learned by practicing Kuk Sool. I also understand the school owners have to be able to make the living, it is only natural and expected. I consider my self lucky because my master have taught me and my classmates about martial arts (Kuk Sool) no about a business and many of us were taught to be instructors and to eventually help share what we have learn by teaching others (opening new schools per say). I also believe that masters and instructors have a gift and such it not for them to keep, soy why to make so damn difficult to school owners with this franchise deal. With sadness I have see KUK SOOL declining in reputation for the last 10 years, it is not what I learned and what I'm still learning anymore (martial art). Sabumnim; I completely agree with your statement.
SBN: That is a good question. How is it that Master Alex has "taken over," and Master Harmon out ranks him. Shouldn't that be a clue to the upper echelon that they are nothing but :jester: s. Moreover, (I think I said this earlier,) this is why, at this point, they need to turn over the business to third party business professionals and stick to just martial arts. For an example, you can sell your house yourself, or you can hire a real estate agent. They need to hire a professional, well known (not a backroom,) company to organize the front office and pull themselves out of the business end. Onatop has it right, to fail to do this creates this situation: instead of GM IHS, you'll have IHS, CEO. Does IHS have the American business know how to be CEO or will he end up like Daewoo? As such, could this be the beginning of the end of Kuk Sool as the torch is being passed to the next generation and it is being snuffed out as it passes? I'm sorry, even though Master Alex has went to a "college," that does not give him any business smarts or understanding of all business types. That is like someone going to a agricultural college and feel that they can organize and operate a company designing high rise buildings instead of operating a hydroponics facility. Here is something else to throw out there: Do you think they are keeping GM IHS isolated and unaware concerning that his association could be destroyed in the next thirty days, or do you think he knows, but is doing nothing? If it took fifty years of HARD work to get this far, does GM IHS think that if this Association be destroyed and Alex had the mantle to build another one, would 50, no 70, no 80 years of Alex's sloppy work will get him this far? Just overcoming the reputation from the fallout may not be possible. If the schools leave the Association, they can stay put in their respective towns. Kuk Sool will always have a bad reputation in those areas for years - - - like a nuclear fallout. The Kuk Sool Won brand would probably never get on another military base, and just imagine the black eye when they would return to visit Korea.
Just two quick thoughts. I don't know Alex Suh. I am guessing he is the next generation to take the reins of power, yes? If that is true I can safely report that the KSW people are not the only folks experiencing this "changing of the guard" as it were. The WHF has likewise undergone a similar shift with the son and uncle taking control and placing the emphasis on buisness. This is not to say that Myung KJN was not "business savey" in his own right, but only to say that I think there was better balance on his watch. I will also say that I elected to move away from the WHF for exactly this reason. I, also, did not get into KMA for the commerce and have no place in my own values or goals for its dominance. IMHE. In the matter of "ownership" of students, I was reflecting on the way in which people in the business community approach a similar issue. In the case of businesses that treat a particular service such as Insurance, Telecommunications, Finance and Medicine, the caseloads are treated as a resource and can be protected, sold and redistributed as such. In this way, depending on the terms of the employment contract, a Financial Advisor, for instance, may or may not keep his customer base when he leaves employment with a firm. Most times he may not and the base is either held for his successor or is redistributed among remaining agents. Just a thought. Best Wishes, Bruce
Hi Bruce, No. Alex KJN is NOT the heir apparent to Kuk Sool Won...That right belongs to his older brother, Sung Jin KJN. It appears, from the outside looking in, the Sung Jin KJN takes more after his father, in being more about the art itself, than the business...Whereas Alex KJN seems to be following suit with his mother, Sa Mo Nim in being the driving force behind the money matters...Not sure if this was intentional grooming for Alex KJN...But in anycase, it is Sung Jin KJN that will inherit WKSA.
Ahh.... gotcha. Thanks for the correction. No disrespect intended, I assure you. BTW: Has Sung Jin expressed any views on this matter that anyone knows of? Best Wishes, Bruce
Hey Bruce, It matters not for me, as I am not from the WKSA camp, as you are aware ;-D I kind of doubt that Sung Jin KJN would say anything in private, let alone in public...It really just rings that "kibun" concept to me, of saving face, and playing the filial piety thing...Sung Jin KJN is a PHENOMENAL martial artist, its a shame he is set to inherit such a mess... --josh
The problem is that school owners are NOT employees of HQ by the agreement, nor independent contractors. As such, there still is little room, legally, to acquire the students, other than through this new franchising. Think of it from this perspective: HQ only have access to students via their membership. Otherwise, they are direct students of the school. This is a dual membership situation - - - just like you can be a member of Kuk Sool and your local gym. What HQ wants is for you to do is to turn over your rights of your student's membership to your school to them. My question then is: doesn't that automatically make a employment or contractor relationship? If you are acquiring students for them, you can't work for free - - - everyone knows that that is illegal. So since the students automatically become theirs, aren't you then their employee? Maybe that is something else the "legal beagles" can look at. :whistle:
Any senior like John Ives will be well looked after by K S W so there is no chance of them EVER rocking the boat when their own privileges might get taken away. They all look after themselves and I have seen this first hand. . Alex K J N is family, K J N Barry married into the family so in eastern tradition he has no right to interfere in family affairs unless asked to. Lots of instructors out rank K J N Alex again they have no right to interfere. Sung Jin K J N is one of the nicest people you will ever meet but I feel he leaves the business to Alex K J N and I think will never question Kuk Sa Nim. For thoes who asked if K S N knows, YES he does and has been probably been told its for the best for the future. MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL x x x x x x
