Kuk Sool Won franchise

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by tatar, Dec 15, 2008.

  1. nym

    nym Valued Member

    We are here to ammuse well at least I am. Jackpot Holmes great workX

    Hell we need someone, I think even most 5 year old children would do a better job at the moment.:)
     
  2. davefly76

    davefly76 Valued Member


    go on then! :rolleyes:
     
  3. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

    Yeah, alright then

    Yeah, alright then, but first I'll need ten schools to step forward :rolleyes: :D
     
  4. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    Or just get 3 more plus yourself, and all of you join KSGA (and that way EVERYONE would finally have their curiosity quenched). :jester:
     
  5. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

    Is there something you're not telling us?

    How do you happen to know that KSGA have six already? Is there something you're not telling us?

    In any case, there is really absolutely no need for schools/clubs in the UK to have to pay to be members of organisations outside of UK borders, laws and control.

    The following may also be of some interest and relevance to you all:

    To come to the United Kingdom as a professional or amateur sports visitor you must be able to show that you:
    only want to visit the United Kingdom for up to six months;
    plan to leave the United Kingdom at the end of your visit;
    have enough money to support and accommodate yourself without working, help from public funds or you will be supported and accommodated by relatives or friends;
    do not intend to charge members of the public for services provided or goods received;
    do not intend to study;
    can meet the cost of the return or onward journey;and
    that you intend to take part in one or more of the activities shown in 'how do I know if I am a sports visitor?' below.

    How do I know if I am a sports visitor?
    You will be a sports visitor if during the course of your short visit you intend to:
    take part a particular sporting event, tournament or series of events;
    take part in a specific one-off charity sporting event and that you will not be paid other than cash prizes or for board and lodging and other reasonable expenses;
    join as an amateur a wholly or mainly amateur team and that you will not be paid other than for board and lodging and other reasonable expenses;
    be a member of the support staff of a visiting sportsperson or an official (including those officials coming on a voluntary basis) attending the same event as the visiting sportsperson;
    undertake personal appearances or promotional activities;
    undertake a trial provided it is not in front of an audience, or training provided that they are not basing themselves here and they participate in friendly or exhibition matches only.
     
  6. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    Interesting.

    I'm sure the argument is that KSW is not a sport under the law. The above laws apply to visiting Olympic athletes, basketball teams, soccer teams, etc.

    The argument is that the KSW is more like Coca-cola, the product. "Coke" is an American product based out of Georgia, USA. It is a proprietary product that is entitled to compensation in whatever country which allows Coke. Wherever Coke is actually manufactured...whether the factory is in the US, UK or China...the fact of the matter is: it is an American company that is entitled to compensation if sold. And as far as I know, Coke can be bought and sold in the UK.

    Similarly, WKSA is an American company based out of Texas that is selling a product. As such, if there is a buyer, they are entitled to compensation. Like Coke, the place of "manufacture" doesn't matter...as it is a product that is sold over the international market.

    Local vendors, supermarkets and salesmen distribute Coke locally in the UK...similarly, UK dojangs act as distribution points in selling of the product, KS locally to UK buyers.

    Of course, not everyone may see it that way. I suppose establishing KS as a product would go a long way in franchising UK schools.
     
  7. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    It's clearly stated on their website.

    Nine Inquiries, and six sign-ups. :rolleyes:



    ROFL, wouldn't that make WKSA happy? But seriously, copyright issues surrounding KSW would prevent it from being considered a true "product" - something it doesn't share with the likes of Coca-Cola. Losing those copyright battles are why anyone can get away with saying they teach kuk-sool, as long as they don't say "kuk sool won."
     
  8. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    LOL. I was just using Coca-cola as an example. But the point is that cola can be attained from many different companies. Coca-cola co and PepsiCo are the two largest. Shasta makes a decent one. Several supermarkets make generic cola too.

    Similarly, WKSA is probably the largest kuk sool "company" like Coca-cola co is to cola. Sure, you can also get kuk sool from smaller schools as well.

    In any case, the kuk sool being sold by the WKSA is atleast a pseudo-product. What exactly that translates to by law is another story. But I don't see why American services rendered in the UK should not be paid....and vice versa.
     
  9. KIWEST

    KIWEST Revalued Mapper

    Don't be daft Dave.......that would involve "Nym" taking a risk or having the courage of his/her convictions! Assuming that he/she has some convictions! (No jokes about erring masters or hopeful masters please):rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2009
  10. Herbo

    Herbo Valued Member

    "LOL, it looks more like grey hair to me than blond."

    Perhaps when turning into his alter ego, the menacing takeover planner, master Ives shares the trait of He-man where his hair changes a couple of shades, rendering him unrecognisable to even his own family lol.
    I'm curious about where this takeover idea has come from as I've never heard anything about it b4.
     
  11. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

    UK law

    Yes, and I was only using Sport as an example too. In the UK, I think you'll find that martial arts come under the Department for Culture, Media and Sport. See: http://www.culture.gov.uk/ And as far as the UK Government is concerned, Kuk Sool Won is nothing more than a Registered Trade Mark. You can't simply walk into this country and start trading as such with obtaining the necessary licensing - In the same way that we (us British) can't simply set up shop in the US. It's a different situation for individuals within the European Union, of course.

    As for Kuk Sool Won being a Trade Mark, who gives a damn? The 'Won' bit is entirely superfluous to requirements anyway!
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2009
  12. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    Hahaha. The mysterious brown envelop! Yay! Bond, James, Bond. *shakes fist*
    All very hush, hush and secretive but we all know what is going on.

    Yes, I believe its shady in that they are obviously trying to hide the taxes aspect...but are you inferring that the whole collection of black belt fees is illegal?

    For me, I think WKSA is entitled to assess reasonably fees. I think I read that the fees are actually VERY reasonable as in they haven't gone up in decades? But I do think all earnings should be reported and properly taxed. If I'm paying all my taxes, so should my neighbors.

    In any case, I think all of this is moot in that the paperwork or papertrail will lead to all transactions being done on US soil. As long as the application form and fees are paid to WSKA...and they have this application as a hard copy on US soil, that's all that matters.

    I'm a firm believer that whatever appears in writing supercedes whatever anyone says.

    The fees will all appear to be on US soil in the form of completed application on US letterhead with a US address...and the trips for black belt "testing" would appear to be confirmation/conferral/quality assurance trips only with no real money exchanged for services rendered. So I think the burden of proof would be very hard to obtain, especially against written evidence to the contrary.

    Perhaps I am a bit naive?
     
  13. Onatop

    Onatop Valued Member

    Just to amuse myself and contribute to plot ... Assuming the above statement is true and I am not saying it is, but wouldn't this mean all the BB certificates are illegal to?

    Now seriously speaking! it takes money to run and organization, weather is a nonprofit or a money making machine, this is true anywhere in world, now just to be clear, I am not justifying all those fees nor I am defending WKSA

    Onatop
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2009
  14. nym

    nym Valued Member

    To my knowledge if you pay for good or a service it is up to the business who received the monies to declare it, e.g. you get your car serviced and being Joe public you only need the receipt to guarantee the work carried out, if the garage does not declare your invoice or parts used to the tax dept then that’s their problem not yours. As in the case for K S W its up to them to declare the monies they have received for BB fees, it does not make the grade achieved or the certificate illegal. The school owner again is not responsible to declare it, as the transaction is between the student and W K S and the school owner makes no money out of BB fees. But the school owner must declare the £50-£70 he charges (if he does charge) for the yellow fringe suit he sells to the student, which by the way the school owner gets for FREE, they have started to charge because school owners were not happy regards not getting anything out of the BB fee so as I was told the suit fee was introduced.

    I’m too old Dave past 5 along time ago, I think it should be the kid in the Velvet toilet tissue adverts and if he comes into power he has to provide jelly and ice cream every class and in winter hot chocolate with marshmallows mmmmmmmmm.
    I think you will be surprised if you knew the number of school owners with convictions legal that is. As for me standing up for my convictions, I do my bit and the day (it will come) you find out who I am there will be a few gawping mouths LOL, but at least I have told no lies in what I write, not that I’m saying anyone else has. What’s the worst that can happen? They throw me out and send in the ninjas to have a talk with me in the middle of the nightJ about cross-stitching and crochet XX
     
  15. KIWEST

    KIWEST Revalued Mapper

    Nothing surprises me these days! LOL
    LOL I look forward to that Nym. I guess if you are not a school owner then you are right. But if that is the case why not own up now? I suppose I just get a bit annoyed with those who give everyone else advice or criticise or condemn but don't let those who they are critisizing or condemning know who they are. Which is a bit unfair, as they may then not feel comfortable responding freely, incase you ARE one of the Ninjas! LOL
    By the way, did you put a lot of thought into finding the most disrespectful name you could come up with or was that just an accident?!
    You have to admit...you DO like stirring it don't you? LOL
    Thanks for the kisses, I think!
     
  16. nym

    nym Valued Member

    If you are referring to “nym” please explain how it is the most disrespectful as I do not understand, if its not that then explain please what you mean

    If you all find out who I am then no one will give me the gossip and then the chance of a scout from Hello magazine ( rather it was Vouge but i'm not classy enough) realising what a busy bee I can be might give me a job. Then ita all parties and celebs for me LOL

    Now am I stirring or am I telling as I see in the hope it will help K S W become a better organisation ? thats upto you to decides Lovies. Always kisses for you Ki west XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
     
  17. KIWEST

    KIWEST Revalued Mapper

    Well, I was always told that the suffix "Nym" meant something like "honourable" and that it was considered disrepectful to use it when referring to yourself. Many instructors, (including me when I remember) leave the "Nym" off their title when signing off a letter for example, so I would be John Pu Sabum or PSB not Pu Sabum Nym. But I guess if you did not know that then it is not disrepectful. It also shows that you were not a stdent at Beccles school when KJN Doc was there, or you would definitely have known about it! LOL



    Well, I have a VERY good dea Nym, but I won't spoil the surprise for everyone else!



    Well, thank you! I never knew I had a fan!!!:cool:
     
  18. Obamamama

    Obamamama Valued Member

    illegal?

    i cant say that the bb test fee itself is illegal, but the manner in which it is collected probably is. in most states(in the USA) ma schools are categorized as a "health spa" or "health club" and it is not lawful to collect fees more than 31 days in advance. the fact that it is called a "test fee" is irrelavent. it is a fee for service and they claim it to be "non-refundable" which is , of course, absurd..... WKSA is in a world of ***** right now, they put themselves there and there is no turning back......


    every 5-10 years IHS/WKSA/suh family has had a exodus of masters..... but this is different. now there is an exodus based on more than just a local dispute with 1 or 2 masters. I think you will soon see 6-10 masters from different regions leave, maybe more..... and good ones. people with real combat experience, excellent skill, business savvy etc..... all bc of this franchise dung. it is the beginning of the end of wksa and it will never be the same.......just watch
     
  19. Obamamama

    Obamamama Valued Member

    this is the most viewed, read, and responded thread in the history of ks/map which means it is relevant....very relevant. without doubt WKSA watches this along with many others.... i have perused it on occasion. WKSA is not doing this franchise bc they want to..... they have NEVER proactively done anything like this for no reason..... so this must be a reaction to an outside stimulus of significant power. which can only be the us government and one or more of its many agencies..... that makes perfect sense... occams razor...... there is probably tremendous pressure being exerted on owners to be "loyal" and requirements of other "cult"like requests .. if so then wksa is scared. scared to face criticism , constructive or otherwise. the pyrotechnics of Waco may not occur here , but i bet the intensity on the "inside" is just a tight. i bet that alex's hair is getting "greyer" by the minute!!! for those of you out there that are privy as owners masters or bb's look at your own common sense to tell you the truth.......
     
  20. ember

    ember Valued Member

    After all, it's not like there's a recession going on, a bear stock market, a credit crunch, and a lot of people suddenly struggling financially...

    Evacuating for Hurricane Rita four years ago cost me $800, easily, and I was only gone about 5 days because it didn't hit Houston. Hurricane Ike last fall hit Houston, and I'm certain more than a few students were severely affected by it. (I know some who were.)

    [EDIT] I mean, certainly there *could* be something more to it, but there wouldn't have to be. Seems to me the economy's bad enough.[/EDIT]
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2009

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