KSW Black Belt Licence Agreement

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by Unknown Entity, Mar 28, 2006.

  1. Buckeye Blue

    Buckeye Blue Valued Member

    Agreed that he is entitled to his opinion, as misinformed as it may be. But his opinion is subject to criticism. There are plenty of things about KSW with which to complain. However, I have never heard anyone go so far as to say that it is a McDojo, a McDojo being the martial arts equivalent of a pyramid scam. The fact that the rest of us would not be smart enough to recognize the scam is a dig at us, whether intentional or not.

    I will presume that Natkungfu was not trying to be a flaming jerk, and that instead he was responding to some complaints we have with the business/political side of KSW. Notwithstanding the politics, the KSW practitioners will attest that unlike a McDojo, the curricullum is extremely extensive and the training is top notch.
     
  2. Pride&Poise

    Pride&Poise Valued Member

    I'm at DBN (3 stripes) level, and this is the first I've heard of the no cross-training rule. I know we have BBs who train in other arts (one teaches another art), so it doesn't appear to be enforced or even really actively discouraged.

    But in all honesty, if when I walked in on my first day I was told that if I reached BB I would have to sign a paper saying I wouldn't train in any other art I probably would have turned around and walked out. Respectfully of course.
     
  3. buddafinger

    buddafinger Valued Member

    Agreed
     
  4. buddafinger

    buddafinger Valued Member

    Agreed
     
  5. Ferran

    Ferran Valued Member

    When I learned about X-training and the licence ag. I found a way to remember / retell PSBN that I had gotten reacquainted with my Iaido sensei. Hasn't been any trouble.

    Things may change in the future (maybe when KSN retires things soften, maybe WKSA doesn't like my Iaido). Also, I don't see clearly if holding the licence before you _after_ you get to BB is not changing the rules. I can't see if it's legally enforceable, since it's not made clear from the beggining.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2006
  6. swntzu

    swntzu has left MAP for a bit

    I don't know if you noticed but I think his post was intened as a joke. As was mine. Note the smiley.
     
  7. Pride&Poise

    Pride&Poise Valued Member

    Yes, I would talk with my instructor and get his permission before cross-training in any other art. But I see that as a sign of respect. When it's in the organization's rules, that's a different story for me. Its not that I know I will cross-train at some point, its just that I think that's a decision for myself and my current teacher to make.
     
  8. Ferran

    Ferran Valued Member

    Yes. Also, the fact that I had started Iaido 14 years ago (had to put it away for reasons outside my control or my sensei's) would in fact mean that I'd have to ask first my Iaido sensei... ;)

    I often wonder if I'll feel this level of confort within WKSA. They're (WKSA, not KSW-ners) certainly not making it easy.
     
  9. Out-to-Lunch

    Out-to-Lunch Valued Member

    For the record "Grandmaster" Timmerman, began his study in the martial arts around 57 years ago, and studied Kuk Sool Hapkido under Pak In Shyuk. Pak In Shyuk later formed Kong Shin Bup (TM), including the entire old Kuk Sool curriculum, and Sajanim Timmerman DID inherit it. But thats another story.
    As far as the issue with WKSA, and the other school, the whole point here is ethics. Many Martial Arts associations have these types of rules, however WKSA apparently did not enforce this rule (of there own) when push came to shove, and yet SJN Timmerman, would still have been required to follow association standards that the assiciation did not enforce themselves? Secondly, your "insight" into the 20 mile area is irrelevent and makes no sense. If Master Timmermans school was there first, it was HIS school, he lived there and chose to open the school to teach an art he loves...Maybe not just for monetary gain as you would seem to be worried about from the above post. Think about it, other schools are competitors but not from the same org, the org that should be like you family, sorry but I would not open a gas station next door to my brothers gas station...Etiquette was broken and rules or regulations were not enforced, this is common sense I would have left too.
     
  10. mijorobert

    mijorobert Valued Member

    even though i dont cross train i think thats bull sh*t,you should be able to do what you want
     
  11. Choiyoungwoo

    Choiyoungwoo Guest


    Actually you can, at least in the USA. No one can take away your consitutional right to assembly. I just wonder if it is lawful to even have a rule like that? any constitutional attorneys around? If you give it up voluntarily then you are giving them a power that they don't have. But thats your choice.
     
  12. Ferran

    Ferran Valued Member

    The point was argued earlier (in this thread?) and it came down, basically, to the fact that you had signed it of your own will. The fact that underbelts do not see that license until it's 'too late' could be a point in 'our' favor, though. However, if you have to go to trial to be able to train, then you have a problem which is unlikely to go away by itself if you win. Or would you train with confidence with someone who has been _trial-ordered_ to let you train?
     
  13. Buckeye Blue

    Buckeye Blue Valued Member

    Ferran hit the nail on the head, its just a contract issue.

    The U.S. Constitution prevents government from restricting your right to assembly/speech/life, liberty pursuit of happiness, etc., private individual/organizations are not prohibited by the Constitution. For instance if a private company fired an employee because he were a minority, the Contitution would not stop that company. However, several dozen federal and state laws would punish the company for doing so.
     
  14. ember

    ember Valued Member

    Depends a bit on which minority. Racial, clearly; disability usually; religion usually. Sexuality varies state-by-state.
     
  15. Buckeye Blue

    Buckeye Blue Valued Member

    Racial, religion and nationality-Always.

    Disability - Always provided that the disability doesn't affect the job, or the disability can be reasonably accomodated.

    Gender - Almost always. Biggest exception being combat arms of the military.

    Sexuality - Depends on the state, but most forms are prohibited or strongly discouraged almost all.

    These are generalizations, it gets a lot more complicated when the actual jurisprudence is considered.
     
  16. pauli

    pauli mr guillotine

    this thread is hilarious. and no, it's not a constitutional issue.
     
  17. Ferran

    Ferran Valued Member

    Yeah. BB licence agreement was created by the WKSA solely for our amusement.

    [NOT!]
     
  18. ember

    ember Valued Member

    All right, so what punishments are there for a small private organization for firing a person on the basis of religion?

    I've heard a lot of anecdotal stories. The one I have personal knowledge happened at a Catholic high school in Indiana. The Bishop found out that one of the teachers had converted from Catholicism to Baptist. Reportedly, in the process of that conversion, he had to reject everything he had been. Therefore the Bishop decided he wasn't an appropriate teacher at a Catholic high school. Never mind that the subject was something like Math or English, not Religion.
     
  19. Choiyoungwoo

    Choiyoungwoo Guest

    Signed What? There is no contract between a WKSA BB and WKSA, is there?
     
  20. kiseki

    kiseki beating shadows since '06

    That makes me sick.
    Forcing someone to reject their previous beliefs to become a member of a different denomination is much worse, in my opinion, than firing a different denomination at a Catholic school, which is also very bad.
     

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