KS family tree

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by hwarang cl, Aug 10, 2007.

  1. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    im sorry sir, is this the modesto demo with master yang, choon shik (where he does first half of double long sword)?
  2. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    It could be, I don't really know for sure (it's not like I'm buddy/buddy with Gene Gause, y'know?).

    I was merely paraphrasing from memory, what I'd seen posted by him. Sorry!
  3. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    speaking of second generation masters, anybody have lineage info on them?
  4. ImaJayhawk

    ImaJayhawk Valued Member

    What exactly are you referring to by second generation? Those that were taught by students of IHS? or the student's students?
  5. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    before masters harmon, duncan, sims, etc.  but after jbl, ihs, kwt, kij, etc.
  6. VegasMichelle

    VegasMichelle Valued Member

    Things get a bit muddled.

    Some tidbits in the timeline to consider:

    IHS started WKSA in 1958. Jung Oh Lee started KS in 1961. Kuk Sool Hwe disbanded in 1966. YKJN Harmon started watching and then training KS between 1966-1969. EK Lee started KS in 1967. Current Chiefmaster IJS also started KS in 1967.

    So my question would be: what do you consider a "generation" in KS? IMO, the time it takes to go from white belt to Master rank is not a good measure because back then, some people made Master in 8-10 years (eg/ EK Lee started in 1967 but by 1977, he was a Master). Meanwhile, YKJN Harmon started around the same time but didnt make Master until 1985.

    But since this is a family tree thread and 1st generation is defined as IHS or ISS...then Jung Oh Lee, YKJN and IJS must be 2nd generation. BIL and EK Lee would be 3rd generation because their teachers are both 2nd generation.

    Interestingly enough, 3rd generation BIL and EK Lee outranked 2nd generation YKJN for most of their careers. Further clouding occurs with KJN Gause. He has direct lineage to IHS so does that also make him a 2nd generation? If so, we have a situation where several 3rd and 4th generation folks currently outrank him!


    FWIW, lineage is a peculiar thing. While notions of things like Ki energy and forms are often dismissed by non-TMAists, lineage is something everyone seems to respect. Even in BJJ, it is not uncommon to hear from where and when one received their current belt.
  7. ImaJayhawk

    ImaJayhawk Valued Member

    One down...

    Kang Ik Jo - Lee Han Chul (1965-1967)
  8. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    jun, sang jin; shim geon seob; i don; byeon jong weon... these are some of the first gen's i hear of that are never mentioned as members of the KSH, but my instructor calls them 'first group'.

    as for my instructor, he left cheolla-bok-do in 1962 to the busan dojang (he says it wasn't a school, but like a garage where 38 or so people collaborated together with free rent) as a 2nd degree in jidokwan under his older brother (who was serving in vietnam). good luck finding anybody else who is still alive from that period. he remembers when jbl first came to the hq, and the last day he ever came back. somebody should get these people to talk story before happy mountain comes their way.
  9. ImaJayhawk

    ImaJayhawk Valued Member

    I'm not sure if this goes here or not, but I noticed in Dr. Kimm's History book on page 429 he mentions the fall out of the kuk sool masters in southwest korea and formation of the Dae Han Kuk Sool Chung Nag Yun Hap Hoe. Is this the same group here?
  10. Dragon2

    Dragon2 Valued Member

    Post #98 I need to make a correction. Jerry Sallee was a student of Mok-yang Kim in the Uk before any of the UK Instructors listed. He was training the same time as Ollie Batts. He started in 1973 at RAF Lakenheath.
  11. Dragon2

    Dragon2 Valued Member

    PS also in post #104 Before all these Instructors Master Sallee was training with Master Mok-Yang Kim in the UK. Master Sallee also has study with Instructors Paul and Frank Garza, Instructors Jay Lee and Dickson Kunz, and Song, Master Jin, Instructors Barry Harmon, Timmy Atkinson and Gene Gause at certain in the beginning and he has or Master Gause has video and picturess of the times. D2
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2010
  12. Ki_Power

    Ki_Power Banned Banned

    info for the tree...

    CKJN Larry White had the following teachers:

    Master White was a 3rd Degree in HapKiDo before transitioning over to KSW.
    In HapKiDo, he was a Direct Student of:
    Chong So Yu - who trained directly under Young Sul Choi, the Founder of Hapkido.

    In KSW, Master White trained Directly under the following Masters:

    Mok Yang Kim
    In Hyuk Suh
    Jun Oh Lee
    Jong Won Pyun
    Jae Choon Park
    In Joo Suh
    In Suk Suh
    Soon Tae Yang
    Chang Si Yoon
    Jo Sung Sam
    In Sun Suh
    Sung Jin Suh

    Of new masters, I know KJN Philip Sage is a direct student of Master White.
  13. Dragon2

    Dragon2 Valued Member

    Does my training that started in 1973 make me second or third of fourth generation Master. I did not test for 12 years but was enjoying working out at different studios with different Instructors. I was not into rank at that time but for my student/s to get promoted I had to be tested and promoted. D2
  14. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    3rd generation, sir. I came to the conclusion assuming Kim Mok Yang was you first teacher and he started after the early sixties. Combine this info with your start date in the generation calculator and we arrive at: 3rd Gen Maester.
  15. Dragon2

    Dragon2 Valued Member

    Hello SsangKall . My start date was Dec. 1971. Thanks D2
  16. Hyeongsa

    Hyeongsa The Duelist

    How is it that everyone has 15 different instructors? How is that possible?
    I have trained with four people during my time. Master Suh, Sung Jin has shown me a couple of things here or there, but he was never my Instructor. Master Suh, Sung Woo Alex has shown me a few things on the straight sword form, but that's about it. Master Barry Harmon worked with me on Maek Chi Ki/Maek Cha Ki, but that's about it. How would I be able to list them as my "Instructors"? An Instructor is someone that teaches you something on a regular basis. I'm guessing that some of you guys moved around alot and trained under everyone...which makes me wonder why they get ****ed when their owns students aren't loyal.
  17. unknown-KJN

    unknown-KJN Banned Banned

    You must be talking about a different thread, cuz I only see one or possibly two instructors listed for each person in the list (go to post #98 to see the most recent version of the list). And I would consider 2 instructors such as the Oh brothers or the Harmons as only one since the dojang may have been run by both people, but training for a particular individual most likely came from one or the other, and not both.

    In post #132, Black Lotus (aka: Ki_Power), lists 12 (not 15) instructors of master rank which Larry White studied under. Remember that he was at the SF HQ during the 1980's, and there were plenty of masters at that time which taught "regular classes" at that location. It was the *revolving door* so to speak, which provided such an opportunity for master White, with M. Y. Kim being the only kuk-sool master that he studied under outside of that location.

    I agree.

    People relocate for various reasons. I studied several different MA prior to KSW simply due to this fact. I was always loyal to my school & instructor but when looking for the same thing elsewhere after making a move to a different city, I often couldn't find anything even remotely similar. So I took the opportunity to try something else which appealed to me but mostly based my choices on the integrity of the instructor. When I first encountered KSW I was deeply impressed but I had to wait a few more years before I could study it on a day to day basis. There were times I traveled quite a distance in order to train in KSW, but that was after I had received my chodan.

    I certainly wouldn't consider learning something at a seminar would qualify you to say that someone was your instructor (I recall the year when master Barry Harmon was tweaking maek-chigi & maek-chagi on the annual seminar tour). However at the higher ranks, when one is likely to be running their own school, *frequent* visits to a master WOULD qualify as them being your "instructor" (FWIW, after my first instructor decided to abandon WKSA, I resumed my continuing instruction from master Barry Harmon despite not being a registered student at his dojang nor training with him all that often - but based on his actions, I do consider him to be one of my instructors in KSW).
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2010
  18. Hyeongsa

    Hyeongsa The Duelist

    Thank you for clearing all that up Unknown!
  19. SeongIn

    SeongIn Banned Banned

    I trace my lineage back to Ancient Grand Master Ugh.

    He is the original martial artist. One day, as I have been told, while Grand Master Ugh was searching for Pterodactyl eggs he wondered into another tribe's cave. Shortly thereafter, he turned around to see 3 angry cave natives. He thought to himself some moves he had seen an Allosaurus perform. So, he quickly charged forward and bit the first angry cave native in the neck ripping his jugular. Then he spun round quickly and swept the other angry cave native using his leg simulating the Allosaurus tail sweep he had seen. For the last angry cave native, he pounced on top of him crushing his chest.

    Yes, Ancient Grand Master Ugh was the man! That next day, he invented fire and the first use of the spear.
  20. MUSOOL1

    MUSOOL1 New Member

    SeongIn, I wonder what Confucius would say about your input.

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