Knife defense quandary

So this topic comes up frequently at MAP and elsewhere. So how about consolidating some MAP wisdom on the topic.

When you practice or watch knife defense, what are your concerns about what you're seeing? It's common for someone to post a knife defense and then for others to give critiques. So what common elements come out of those critiques? Are there universal concerns that come up over and again?

Have at it.

 

Universal concerns off the top of my head and in no particular order.

Recognizing there is a knife involved.

Getting control of the weapon arm.

Getting overly fixated on controlling that arm once achieved.

Don't stop even if you get stuck, keep that survival mentality.

Don't get fixated on disarms.

Look for escape to leave or to access better weapon.

 

Big thumbs up!

Tactile fixation (can't remember where I read that term, but I like it) is a big deal. Being able to think with all of your limbs can confer a big advantage. But the obverse is also a point to consider - I've seen plenty of knife defence videos where ancillary attacks from the knife wielder were not taken into consideration; ie. kicks, headbutts, the free hand, takedowns.

The biggest alarm bell, however, rings when someone cannot spell "defence"

 

I've got a foot in two worlds David. Learned spelling in the UK and then all over again in the States. As a result, I write some things according to the British conventions. Others according to American. Same thing with pronunciation.

The word "tomato" causes me no small distress.

 

So here's my contribution:

In the vast majority of knife defenCe videos, the initial attack is exaggerated to give the defender something upon which to act. So a thrust might involve an exaggerated step forward or lunge. A slash will involve a wide arm swing. Etc.

In truth, none of those things is actually necessary with a knife. The slashing and stabbing action could actually take place within a very small "box" in front of the attacker.

As a result, the defender steps in and defends on the first shot, generally. And their defense very often involves entering in and countering from a position of relative safety (past or at least to the side of the knife point).

What I'd like to see (or do actually) is a video on not getting "killed" while you create or find that actual opening to step in past the weapon and enact those counters we're all familiar with. We all know how to do those things against a wide swing or committed thrust. But doing them against quick flicking and jabbing knife movement is a very different thing. No easier than stepping into and past a jab in boxing.

 

I think there should be a lot more hitting.

Fancy locks and disarms are all well and good, but they become much higher percentage after you've rocked the attacker.

Even for no-contact drills, a good feint can work wonders.

 

It doesn't have to be bone-breaking power. Just pop on some mitts and give them a smack

It's the distraction that is most important, in my opinion.

 

The main thing I see missing is energy and intent.
When both people have a knife they are both reluctant to get into range and so you get back and forth and feinting (there was a vid on facebook showing this).
But when one person has a knife they often feel so much more dangerous than the other guy that they go hogwild and execute multiple thrusts, stabs and grabs. They get less fearful.
And I just don't see that same kind of energy and 'adandon' in knife defence vids (or not often).
So I ask myself 'if that level of energy was added in to this vid would it still hold up?'.

 

Not sure If misunderstood...

It's quite amusing to watch a defender cling to an attacker's weapon arm for dear life with two hands, while the attacker casually transfers the knife to the other hand and carries on stabbing. Even more hilarious when the defender is totally oblivious to the fresh attacks.

Edit: I'm talking about training videos. Not real life as that wouldn't be funny at all.

 

What to watch out for:- getting too involved with the joint mechanics of the blade holding hand - and not the opponent's whole body mechanics. This takes many forms e.g. once you get past the blade (outside only), minimally to the side of; hit/strike/disturb other joints e.g. back of elbow slam, low kick to back of knee, your other hand strike to opponent's face front/back or neck area - all 3 are technically possible. A few others as well.

Things too add:- to the attack, combo attacks e.g. thrust and strike/kick from other side after knife thrust/slash, follow up attacks e.g. back-slash after thrust, then combo+follow-up attacks e.g. knife thrust->backslash then combo kick from other side, then reverse slash from now reversed blade (following 1st slash). Then try with 2 knives combo attacks, then 2 knives combo attacks ->follow-up kick/strike from same/other side(s).

Then after that double same-time attacks from 2 attackers - 1st empty hand strikes, then 1 strike + 1 blade, then 2 same-time knife thrusts. There is a TaiChi application combo for the 2 strikes - which can be modified to blades. Can't remember the name exactly, but 2 attackers are both narrow on you, they strike/thrust high towards you, you stay back just meeting the outside of the their strike/blade hands, take the knee away from 1 (strike/blade becomes useless), and either 'zai' (twisting downwards diversion) on the others blade/strike arm, or 'High pat the horse' (enter behind and take neck and base of spine in opposite directions simultaneously) - not easy mind you, but it is a template that I work from.

 

Nope, you got exactly what I was on about

 

You mean it's not so easy to hit someone without seriously injuring them?

 

The only vid on youtube, where i see the energy and intent Smithy is talking about are the opening salvos of this 1. Pony-tail does well vs Maul Mornie's non-trivial attacks, but for me he could maybe be doing a bit more with his feet. After that it is blade vs blade.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2DtCUfCyfk"]Silat Suffian Bela Diri - Knife Defence and Knife Fighting - YouTube[/ame]

 

Kelly Mccann has some interesting insights

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWQrkFErRuc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWQrkFErRuc[/ame]

 

Delete the "s" from "https" in the url.

 

Quite honestly I don't see the energy i'm talking about in that vid. Aside from some initial side stepping both people are almost nailed in place. They stay pretty set in relation to each other.
The camera stays looking at the same view and the guys barely move out of the frame.
In a real 'attack' I can pretty much guarantee that the camera man would have 'track' the action as the combatants move freely and chaotically around.
Don't get wrong though. That's a good vid in many ways.

 

Something I hate with a passion is when the attacker comes in at 20% (speed or power) but the defender retaliates with near 100%.
As if that shows something to be effective.

Also...not enough grabs from the attacker. Real attackers use their free hand to grab and control and yet that's something nearly always missing.