Knife defence / fighting

Cheers mate,
But I think I am going to have to see it for myself in real time and test it as they say because I am not convinced, I seen so many holes in it that is scared me, he may be able to change my veiw and if he does I will be the first one to back his programe 100% but until he can I am affraid I would have to say avoid it like the plague.

regards

Pat

 

I only watched it for the first time last Sunday. You can learn something from every video, even what not to do. With Bob Breen's video if it is knife defence you are looking for then try his knife fighting video. Bob is one of the top guys in the UK when it comes to knife. I would also recommend you look for the Mike Inay video's whcih you can get at Blitz, now here we are talking about a man who knew what to do with a knife.

regards

Pat

 

As should ALWAYS be the case mate

 

You can find the video on Reactive Knife Defense (Suro Mike Inay's program) in VHS or DVD format here as well:

http://www.inayaneskrima.com/shop.htm


I have not seen the STAB program so I would not even attempt to comment on that. However, something I say at the end of each Law Enforcement class I teach RKD to is this... (and of course is specifically aimed at Officers).

I hope you enjoyed your training today and feel some confidence with Reactive Knife Defense at this point. If you want to become proficient with it you will have to practice - allot - just like with anything else in order to make it "yours". If, however, you did not feel comfortable with this program for whatever reason... please go find another one. There are many viable programs out there and one may fit you better. The important thing is that you find one and practice it because statistics say everyone in this room will one day need it in consideration of the profession your in.


A couple important things to look for when choosing an edged weapon defense system are these:

Must be very simple with limited movements

The curriculum must be able to be learned in a short time frame and cover the most common attacks with options of disengagement or follow up techniques

Program must cover distance and reactionary gap issues as well as awareness of the environment and other elements that may affect the survivability of an edged weapon attack

The defensive techniques should not be at odds with the current training curriculum and should have a commonality in training with other techniques the officer has already been trained in



Regards,

--
Steve Klement
Inayan Masirib Guro
www.inayaneskrima.com
klement@inayaneskrima.com
Inayan Systems International

 

OK, but take this into consideration, what if your attacker knows what he/she is doing with a knife. e.g. an ex-forces who's gone a little doolally. You cant devise a knife defence program around the assumption that the knife weilder does not know how to fight with the knife, that is just dangerous.

Your in the middle of an attack and you cant ask your attacker, hey buddy have you got any knife fighting expeariance? and what if he has, he aint going to stop the attack to answer you.

you have to always assume that the person holding the knife knows exactely what they are doing because if you dont you may be underestimating the threat and intent.

Another thing that got me was a comment made regarding the fact that you have been stabbed tow or even three times and how you then go on to using your techniques to control the knife attacker. Unlucky knife attacker I would say because all three times he has missed your vital organs and you are still fit enough to put up a fight.

This is just a few of the reasons I have my major doubts about this program, if has too many flaws in it, too many assumptions such as the knife fighter does not know what he/she is doing, you have already survived the first initial attack of two or three stabs all of which must have missed major organs and the fact that it is based around grappling the attacker who has a knife by the way also causes me major concern.

No matter how many times I look at it and try to see how Karl has come about with this program I can see no reason for doing what he say's what you have to do to survive, all that seems to be dropping into my head is by grappling the opponent in such a manner you are just asking for trouble.

regards


Pat

 

Close range against a knife - you ARE in trouble anyway - whether you ask for it or not :Angel:

 

Of course you are, as this is exactely were the knife fighter needs you, but from what I have seen on the video, there are far better ways of dealing with it than was done. Using Karl's methods a few quick smacks in the head from the knife fighter would give the attacker full advantage again over the defender in a split second and remember they have already stabbed you two to three times, and now they are really ****ed and comming at you with even more of a vengance.

Nope still cant see the reason behind his methods. Greco and Knife defence I am affraid for me just don't mix. Now learning how to become a knife fighter in order to learn how to defend yourself against a knife, now that makes more sence.

Regards

Pat

 

Whats the tape called in which they show it because I have tapes 1 and 2

 

That's the best place to go for them if you are based in the US, if your based in the UK then go to Blitz they have an online web shop too, for Europe do a Google search for Abanico Video Productions run and owned by Modern Arnis Instructor Deiter Knuttle, I am sure he can get them to you as he is the one who produces them. He has quite a large FMA catalogue of videos and DVD's.

regards

Pat

 

The assumption here in the Philippines is that the guy threatening you with the knife, if he hasn't attacked you already, does know what he's doing. This is because the knife is a relatively easy weapon to learn how to use and everybody seems to be carrying one. I was watching the morning news (waiting for the Super Bowl to start) and noticed that in the half dozen or so arrests recorded the night before, that everyone arrested was carrying a knife. Everybody talks about how we have a knife culture here in the Philippines. Amongst criminals, something nobody seems to mention is that we also have a "tambay" culture. "Tambay" is a coruption of "standby" means to "hang around". These thugs have nothing better to do all day than just hang around and make "yabang" (show off) to each other by exchanging techniques and stories.

The most practical local response to a knife threat here in the PHilippines, is that same practical local response to any kind of physical challenge. You pick up a weapon, any weapon -- rock, bottle, pen, then you run and yell a lot. Otherwise, if you're caught up close and personal and unarmed, we advise a lot of grabbing, hitting, every dirty tactic possible, trying to keep your vitals from being stabbed and trying to run away. (Hope I'm not getting too technical for everyone )

I haven't seen Mr. Tanzwell's instructionals, and I would really love to see it. Though, I will say, that because of my work with the grapplers of the Submission Dungeon Brotherhood, a lot of the techniques I personally practice with the knife involve countering grappling techniques.
BTW, does anyone remember the story of Burton Richardson and Rickson Gracie playing knife versus grappling?

 

Interesting post Diego Vega, with being quite new to FMA's the blade culture at times amazes me, is it controlled by law at all, is it not an offence to carry a blade in public places etc where lots of people are, I know that the more remote places can be lawless but what about the bigger city's. Does the law exist to protect the people or is it every man for him self. My nephew got married to a Phillipino girl last year, I have only met her the once as they live quite a distance away from me but she was telling me that it was a lawless place with lots of corruption where she came from and we talked about Eskrima and her family practice a style that was handed down and also , get this, her grandfather was a local dignitry who was murdered ! I will talk to her more the next time we have a family get together, I have lots of question for her now.

 

I woudn't say that the Philippines is a lawless place. The laws about carrying knives is rather hazy here. There doesn't seem to be any kind of national law covering it, rather it is left to the discretion of local authorities. For the most part, it is illegal and you can get in trouble if caught. The problem is getting caught. For a multiplicity of reasons, from the rather mundane question of numbers -- we don't have enough policemen with enough resources to properly police a population of our size, to the more intangible questions relating to the Filipino character -- our "shame" based society where doing something wrong doesn't disturb us so much (unlike Japan's "guilt" based society) but rather being caught doing something wrong, Filipinos don't seem to be as inclined or disciplined to follow laws just for the sake of following the law. We're a country characterized by a weak central state but strong individuals. Some good books you may want to read when it comes to these questions are Alfred McCoy's "Anarchy of Families," Aprodicio Laquian's "The Erap Trajedy," and Tomas Andres' "Understanding the Filipino."

 

Newcastle upon Tyne knife attack

Hi All,

We recently had an incident on a local transport system station were a moron was verbally abusing a pregnant women and then spat on her. A local martial artists (ju-Jitsu) stepped in and put the thug in a sleeper choke. the thugs girlfriend handed the thug a knife which he then used to stab the M.A. in the thigh repeatedly.

The M.A. has trained for 20 years (according to an interview I saw with him) and thinks that the ease at which one can buy a Samurai sword is the reason that knives are so popular! He's trained for years and never needed to buy a sword or knife.

Anyone else hear the sound of blind faith? His empty hand skills would save him if knives weren't so easily available!

If you haven't trained/played with knives its easy to buy whatever is placed in front of you as an effective technique because the personality selling you the technique says so. I haven't seen the STAB (but I do hate the acronym) system, so I won't comment, but it seems to me that some people will never learn no matter how effective the info they have at their disposal. The Ju-Jitsu guy (wht is the correct term, anyone?) didn't apply the choke correctly - his attacker was able to stab him REPEATEDLY - and then didn't control the situation - the thugs girlfriend handed the thug a knife - and he still blames the availability of bladed weapons for his injuries, not his inability to control the situation.

And I second Pats support for Mike Inay's material. Top notch.

Bill

 

All of the above notwithstanding, the jiu jitsu guy should be commended for standing up for somebody who couldn't defend herself. That's what martial arts should be all about, not system rivalry or being able to win in sports. Its being about defending the defenseless against the bad guys. There should be more guys like that.

 

Further training

Diego Vega wrote:

All of the above notwithstanding, the jiu jitsu guy should be commended for standing up for somebody who couldn't defend herself. That's what martial arts should be all about, not system rivalry or being able to win in sports. Its being about defending the defenseless against the bad guys. There should be more guys like that.<

Absolutely! I have no doubt that there were others who just looked on, but the JJ guys reaction in interviews does seem to indicate that he sees no need for further training, even with his new found experience.

Bill

 

My point exactely, never grapple a knife man it spells disaster, they guy was luck to walk or limp away with his life. from what I have seen of the STAB system (and I will try to see it live) and from the promotion of the system it all seems to be based around Greco Wrestling.


Sorry but cant see it working for real somehow.

Hats of to the JJ guy for standing up for the woman but maybe he should consider training in correct knife defence, not onlu that, how does the availability of Samuria swords make knife more readily available?? I don't get it. Knives are available with or without the sword.

Regards

Pat

 

Samurai swords

Hi Pat,

>Hats of to the JJ guy for standing up for the woman but maybe he should consider training in correct knife defence, not only that, how does the availability of Samurai swords make knives more readily available?? I don't get it. Knives are available with or without the sword.<

Yep, very true. He said "I've trained for 20 years and never felt the need to use a sword, yet Samurai swords are available in loads of shops". I think he was highlighting a menace the public are becoming used to - to wit, sword wielding maniacs. No, no correlation between sword availability and that of knives that I know of.

The overall impression I got was a well meaning but naive individual. If swords/knives were less available, then empty hand techniques would be more effective. Nice idea, except of course, swords and knives are available, so we had better start working on ways to make empty hand defences effective

Bill

 

Ron Balickis defensive edge tapes are good, as are Lynn Thompsons warriors edge series. i also like Tony Blauer stuff, althought it is based on the same principle as Karls, Contact Control Counter. I also enjoyed the knife program that Mo Teague and Andy Gibney put together.

 

A guy jumped on the local metro (rail service) the other day and just started hacking at people with a machete!
hell..a couple of weeks ago a one-legged wheelchair-bound beggar stabbed a student in the leg for ignoring him!!

It seems there are more loons getting tooled up and starting trouble all the time.

Fair play to the JJ guy for sticking up for someone in trouble, and it was bad luck that got him hurt.
I'm not about to pick fault with any system or it's application. and to be fair he did tackle an (initially) unarmed individual. But these days he was lucky the guys' missus didn't have a spare knife and stab him aswell!! as for if he had any more buddies round the corner.....i wouldn't like to think!

I'm from birmingham originally (there's plenty of stabbings in that place!) and have lived in newcastle for 6 years-now it's almost as bad as birmingham.

I'm glad that i'm learning a system that accepts that you may well have to deal with someone with a knife, or even a few of them. but i hope i'm never in the situation where i've got to put it to the test!

 

Just stumbled on this web site http://www.respectsport.co.uk/ they have a video section with some Bob Breen videos under Jeet Kune Do, one being JKD volume 2 knife techniques, and a Mike Inay video under Phil called reactive knife, your opinions please as which one is the better of the two if some one already owns them.

PS My "STAB" video has not yet arrived, Rosi Sexton replied to my e mail saying there is a problem with the supplier at the moment, been nearly 2 weeks now.