Knife defence / fighting

Can anyone recommend a good knife defence video / DVD as I have purchased a couple off e bay and they always seem to not be " as advertised ". Defence with an FMA approach would be better still. Is there an Escrima / Arnis system that specalises in knife technique, someone mentioned to me about a system called Sayoc Kali.

 

tel

try www.fightgear.com good dvd from bob breeen on knife fighting and defence

 

hey old timer, I have a video of Dan Inosanto demonstrating how to defend yourself against knife attacks on my computer... if your intrested PM me and I would be happy to transfer it to you via msn...

by the way...why the name old timer?? I checked your profile and it says your b day is 1962...common man...thats still young!!! i can't wait to be that age.

 

Before I registered on MAP I lurked in the back ground for a while checking postings & profiles etc, most of the people at that time seemed much younger than me and with my introduction to training in 1980 it seemed such a long time ago that it made me feel old. The other name that I was known at from a Wado Ryu Karate club that I trained at from 1992 - 1998 was Physco, not a name I chose myself just a name that was thrust upon me because some of the guys would not spar with me only because by this time I had trained in Lau Gar for 3.5 years, Thai boxing & semi contact Kick Boxing so I had more experience than them. When my knees play up I sometimes feel my age but I will carry on training as long as my health will allow.

PS dont tell anyone about the name Physco, it still embarrasses me now.

 

If your goal is defending your self from a knife wielding assailant when unarmed - check out Karl Tanswell's S.T.A.B. system - nothing better IMHO.

http://www.karltanswell.co.uk/shop/stab.html

 

Thanks for that Yoda, and what a good system it looks, I had not heard of them before.

 

S.T.A.B. is the only unarmed versus knife that I teach - and believe me - I've seen more - much more.

 

If I saw some dude on the street that wanted a piece of me and his name was Physco, I would be a little more intimidated then "oldtimer"

Personally some people fear getting old, however, If I where you old timer I would be so proud that I have dedicated so much of my life to the arts.

I'm 21 now and am new to this. I can't wait until I have as much experience as you under my belt.

P.S. shhhhh...i won't tell anyone your nickname...it will be our secret ( along with about 500 users who will visit this page)

 

I have the Bob Breen Knife Fighting and Panantukan I videos, they are both excellent IMO. At first glance I was thinking "God this is a little basic" but then I started to realise what a great lesson they are in good body mechanics with great foundation training drills. There are sequels to the Knife and Panantukan tapes too, which I will be buying soon.

 

Why is STAB so good?

Incidentally, Jim Wagner is teaching knife defence (and more) in London this month, if anyone's curious ... http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/rbma/UK_seminars.html

 

Because it's based around an ALIVE training method.

 

Sorry about this Yoda, But I heard a lot about the S.T.A.B. training programe for a while now and how much some people rated it and was very keen to have a look see, you know when you hear something about a subject you cover you are always curious, one of my students who come over for some training with me brought down the video for me to watch last weekend.

All I can say is this What I saw I thought was darn right dangerous to the user and would get you killed, some of the comments made on the vid made me cringe.

Karl is a nice guy and a very good grappler and JKD exponent but sorry I would say aviod it like the plague as I think this is a subject he should have reseached a little more before developing this programe. I am sure his intentions were good but sorry, it's a no no for me.

One comment that realy scared me and I can't quote him word for word as I only watch the video once was, You may have been stabbed, onece twice or even three times but as he pulls the knife out you???? The whole point about knife fighting is to avoid being stabbed, you will get cut, that is an acceptable fact but it is were you get cut that counts and if you get stabbed your in a whole heap of trouble.

Again, Sorry but from what I have seen, I think if you used this as your basis for knife defence, the only person that would be alive at the end would be the knife holder. There a far better videos on the market that are well researched and have more realistic approaches to real knife combat I'm affraid, the S.T.A.B. Video just does not cut it for me, it scared me to see what he was telling people to do.

All I can say is this. Rule number 1: DONT GRAPPLE A KNIFE FIGHTER even if it is Greco Roman Wrestling.

The Bob Breen Videos are far better, and some very good videos to get on knife fighting and defence are the ones made by the late Suro Mike Inay by Abanico Video Productions, and anything by Grand Tuhon Leo Gaje. And if Tony Diego has any vidoes out on knife fighting then I want one, he is by far one of the top knife men I know of.

Regards

Pat

 

I wish you would of told me before Pat, I ordered it last Sunday, have not received it yet though. Every training video must have some good points, if I can learn one new thing to add to my FMA knife attacking / defending I will be happy. I did look on Bob Breens web site but there are a lot of videos to choose from, and it is a matter of knowing which one is the right one, that is when forums like MAP come into their own.

 

I'd still say check it out Oldtimer. There is a crucial difference here between different approaches to knife defense. A lot of approaches assume the starting point is two people standing 5 feet apart with one of them brandishing a knife. STAB assumes that the attacker has just stepped up and stabbed you. It has the advantage of being a relatively staightforward approach. I wouldnt presume to say which is best but I do feel it has things to offer.

 

Pat:

I think the point of the STAB program that you have missed is what, when and where it is meant for.

Of course you chould avoid being stabbed at all costs.

Of course you should leggit at the first opportunity.

Of course this is not a method developed to combat a good "knife fighter." in some sort of duel scenario.

The STAB program is about grappling range with a knife because it is designed to deal with a situation when the other options are not avaialble. In other words, your fault, his fault, or no-one's fault you ARE at that range and there's IS a knife whizzing about. It's a "last ditch" scenario. Even to the point where you may well have been stabbed already before you realise what is going down. What are you supposed to do at that point? Lie down & die?

I too was very sceptical about the stuff when I first saw the video. Actually going along and training in it with Karl and his guys changed that. Seeing and feeling them actually doing it - and it working VERY well - is what changed my opinion.

How often have we heard the wise words "don't judge a system from a video" - especially in our line of study? Videos can sometimes give a very false impression - take the Dog Brothers tapes for example. I've had people on the phone and by email who will not come to my class because I teach DBMA. They have formed an opinion from watching the tapes - and think that a DBMA class is what they see on the tapes. Which is a very misguided view - it is just not so. Same with STAB.

 

I've got the STAB tape, and Karl Tanswell does make it clear that the video is designed around a specific "grappling" range and that you really shouldn't be there in the first place if you can help it.

As Yoda says, it seems designed for the case where you've been drawn into a bit of a standup scuffle and then the knife gets drawn or if the guy deliberatley tries to chib you at very close range.

In that specific view, then the STAB programme seems sensible enough. However, you wouldn't want to seek to get into that range. I did come away from the tapes with the view that this was very much last resort stuff that karl was teaching.

just my worthless old scabby 2p
Paul

 

You have made some very good arguments Paul S and Yoda, but I am still very sceptical from what I have seen on the Video, I know you cant realy judge from videos but it does gove a a pretty good guide line and what I saw scared me, from what I saw I feel it is a very dangerous apporach, especially if someone tries to use it as their core to knife defence.

It is true that if you are stabbed you have to fight or die but there are much better ways to deal with the situation based on what I veiwed on the video and based on personal expeariance.

I am affraid if you show this to people like Tony Diago, Leo Gaje, Ondo Caburnay and Diony Canete I feel they would have the same look of amazement of their faces as I did when I watched it.

Maybe I need to see it in action to make a final judgement or maybe Karl could get his point across better, as you know many people will take this programe at face value, especially JKD exponents as Karl is a JKD personality in the UK and they will read it no it that it is the be all and end all of facing a knife, if they do this, chances are they will end up wearing a wooden overcoat.

Normally once I watch a video I just sit back and keep my opinions to myself, but as the subject came up and you know me I have very strong opinions, I had to air what I thought of the video and I am still not convinced it is the thing to use, as a matter of fact I think it is the total opposite. To me it looks as though not enough research has gone into making the video and it could have been put across a lot better so people can understand and work out exactly what karl is trying to get across. All I could ases from watching is that it is all over barr the shouting for the defender.

Again sorry about that but I had to say what my veiws are.

regards

Pat

 

As far as I am concerend you cannot design knife defence around grappling, if you do so you are playing right into the knife fighters hands, there are better ways of dealing with this senario.

A knife fighter has to be at close range to do the real damage, The FMA has been dealing with this situation for a long long time now and what they teach is still relavent today and is put into practice, remember the Philippines is very much a knife culture and deals with knife attacks on a day to day basis, their apporach is practical and effective, as they say if it aint broke why fix it.

Sorry matey but I again beg to differ, there are better last resorts and better ways to deal with this situation, but like I said I think I will have to see it for myself in real time up against someone who knows what they are doing with a knife.

regards

Pat

 

No need to appologise for airing views Pat - that's what discussion is founded on

I'm sure Karl would be able to give you more info on why he does this the way he does.

For me - having trained in many systems like yourself - this is the best "unarmed vs knife-wielding thug at close quarters" system I've had experience of.

 

That's not what the system is designed for.

Unarmed versus someone who knows what they are doing with a knife? At close range? I haven't seen anything that gives a decent chance of survival in that scenario other than a prayer to Lady Luck.