For Options you have, repeated blows to his face with your elbow/head. Breaks to the elbow, knees, or just control of the weapon. Obviously he could swith hands which you have to be aware of. Or seeing as your trapped, use the leverage on his elbow to geta free space, and leg it! after raining blows on his head and face to distract him of course
Observe, is the knife a stabbing knife or a slashing knife, heavy or light? Then it will dictate tactical response. Expect to get cut, and use fore-arms for shield if small knife, but if heavy slashing knife like kukri it will shear arms off. It is very brave and foolish to try to hit head because you will be stabbed or slashed. A good knife fighter (a good any fighter) will control/dominate around his centre, it is simple matter to follow attempt to move around centre. There is 2 solutions that work for me if you can't run. 1/ Sendal pancing principle to sucker enemy to follow for kill, and you back kick to stomach area (biggest target - less missing). This has worked for me against a better knife fighter, but better work first time. 2/ Be a better knife fighter on the day, and if no knife get any object to defend and attack ... umbrella better than knife! Best thing is to allow gerak nurani to happen, trust your instincts and make sure that you have seeded them properly in your training. Best way to let gerak nurani to happen is to know that it doesn't matter if you die now or later, so we can remain calm and not only do gross motor movements. We all have a terminal condition called life! Nuwun.
Speaking as a rokie here, Controlling the elbow is controlling the next movement....However, you must re-direct the incoming and at the same time move away from the firing line. Only then Your try to control the his hand by placing your forearm or hand against his knife hand hand, preferably slightly above his elbow. When your control his elbow, you controlling his shoulder, when you controlling his shoulder, you are controlling his next movement. If you try to control a wrist from the start without the understanding of securing your perimeter, you are on a very high risk. And I could be wrong too, Tristan
I think it’s difficult in reality to dodge or block a knife attack without getting cut at some point, you don’t know what area he is going to strike. Perhaps it’s better to make your move before he makes his, obviously you are going to move swiftly because your life depends on it. I would go for a grab and strike/brake, I don’t think wrestling or locks are a good idea with a knife attacker, I don’t really want to be wrestling around on the floor with a knife. Buying a split second could be important in this situation. Blasting a handful of pocket change or whipping your belt buckle in someone face will make them blink and perhaps that’s all you need. In a beach situation a handful of sand in the eyes might do the trick.
That's enough theory for me. I won't be posting to this thread any more. As I said before, I know what I would try to do. I just hope I never have to prove whether I'm right or wrong. Kind regards, Declan
Not think but act. How you decide to respond relies on thought process too. I'll always have a questions to all so called master knife fighter, do they ever fight someone who are trying to kill him with knife or gun and survive or do they ever kill someone with knife, if they never did one or both of the scenario than his skill or mastery in knife fighting is still in doubt. Demo and showing how to...DOES NOT ACCOUNT! And I could be wrong too, Tristan I have not seen any master knife fighter here, and I have not killed anyone in a knife fight ... neither do I wish to I did practice knife fighting in my youth, not chorographed ... it was part of my military training ... and the scenario happened as I described, but I was far from master , but some in my unit had real life experience with a knife (or two) in certain ill-conceived, stupid and arrogant wars, so my training did have slightly elevated realism to it ... Salam
Kembang Alas How you decide to respond relies on thought process too. Hmmmm, true in part, at the end you must act before its too late!!! I have not seen any master knife fighter here, and I have not killed anyone in a knife fight ... neither do I wish to I did practice knife fighting in my youth, not chorographed ... it was part of my military training ... and the scenario happened as I described, but I was far from master , but some in my unit had real life experience with a knife (or two) in certain ill-conceived, stupid and arrogant wars, so my training did have slightly elevated realism to it ... Salam Good for you my friend Can't use someone exprience for ourselves. Until you have seen the elephant, you will not predict how you are going to react in a real situation or life and death situation. So you are in the military, huh? What is you MOS? We can all can sing like canary or be key board warriors, the fact is this. all your training, all your preparations does not mean nothing if you do not or can't react in time of needs. Again, I could be wrong too, as usual Tristan
i was watching some program, not sure what it was now but it was about self-defence in everyday situation. they said in a knife attack the best thing to do if u cant run is to take off your jacket providing you have time and use that as a shild or guard. its the same principle as in bull fighting, where you metador can deceive the bull in the direction he is going. also in the program they said that if the opponent stabs the jacket without hitting you, you can use the jacket to wrap round the knife and disable it for a short time, enough for you to counter or escape. they showed a demonstration and it seems pretty effective, however would an average joe guy be able to do the same thing. they didnt tell you what to do if you havnt got a jacket tho?
So you are in the military, huh? What is you MOS? That is a "WAS in the military" thank-goodness (past tense), and NOT in the US military ... so your US miltary acronym is meaningless to me. Where I woz, MOS is short for mosquitoe ... and I don't keep any We can all can sing like canary or be key board warriors, the fact is this. all your training, all your preparations does not mean nothing if you do not or can't react in time of needs. Again, I could be wrong too, as usual Very true. At this point we are all "key-board warriors" and anybody can crow about their abilities. No one is doing that though, and your dire warning that the way you train is not necessarily the way you fight is stating the obvious ... no? Having said that, in my system there is a philosophical component which I thought pertinent to the original thread, which views the relation between life and death where the two are part of the same journey. Neither should be feared, we experience both. Again the only option available for each of us is to train to the best of our abilities, so that maybe when the time comes we do not focus on the distracting thoughts and be a warrior. Now I notice on the net that in many sensibilities, being a warrior is equated to being a soldier. This is not true. A soldier is not necessarily a warrior, and a warrior does not need to be a soldier. (For the most part in my experience soldiers are just confused individuals who've been taken for a ride). Gerak nurani ... pure or instinctive movement coming from the our natural selves still needs to be seeded with methods that can be effective. So in a sense it's a process to direct instinct (training our reptilian brain) so that it automatically produces the response we have designed through mental exercise. The only way you can test that is through action. For what it's worth, they are two pillars to my system, and as Mas Tristan says, I could be wrong too. Salam hangat semuanya, kerabat dalam silat! Warm wishes to all, family in silat.
You said:The only way you can test that is through action. ****************** This it true, I ve been there and done that, do you? Tristan
Yes I have experienced gerakan yang timbul dari nurani ... the movement that is instinctual. The question is, what is the quality of the movement? Sometimes good, sometimes bad, sometimes in between ... hehe. All people have it, it's just the quality that is different, person to person. FWIW I used to be user-id Sekaralas, and I left because I let my base instincts take over. (Sorry MAP ) Sekar=Kembang=Flower ... Alas=Forest, Kembang Alas the name of my family style (also known as Silat Godong-kembang Pitulas and/or Silat Suryaning Ngalogo). I'm originally from Jawa Timur dekat Ngawi/Madiun on the foot-hills of Gunung Lawu. My father also taught me some Setia Hati ... hehe. I've already detailed my army back-ground in previous posts, you can dig it up if it's important to you. Salam P.S. Flowers that grow in the forest grow where nature intended them. They are generally hardy as they are not cared for or cultivated by human intervention ... it's all very deep
Training -vs- "Real-World" Encounter Great arguements I must say. I gather that you can't really say what you would/could do in that situation unless you have the understanding of having been there. Right or wrong? My question is: Do a lot of other silat systems train blade to 'enhance' thier empty hand abilitys? I heard a rumor that that's what most say the west has done to real silat . I understand that, at it's origans silat is a "blade art" thru it's culture and necessity. Got that, enough said. I feel that because my teacher draws good understanding from me when the cycle of training comes around to dealing with the blade. It always seems that I become more aware, period. Would you agree that training (and I repeat "training", "studying", etc") to deal with a blade increases your skill in understanding important essentials like "timing" and "distance"? I personally feel that a lot of my other training (jurus, etc.) really comes to light during the time that follows after these blade lessons. Maybe someday I will have developed the skill to stop said attack from killing me. How will it happen, who knows? From what I understand from you guys is I better be able to stop him, delay him/her enough to give me a chance to turn around and boogy. Hopefully some of my family members won't be around there in a situation like that. Then running isn't an option, is it? Most of us train in the "hopes" of coming out alive in any type of bad situation. Outside of MMA, and Military combatives, who put themselves intentionally into martial situations, we are all just hoping we do a better job when that next time comes. Doesn't it come down to that? Do you have to understand the difference between ingraining important understandings that will make you a better fighter, and false confidence? Abso friggin lutely. Good to learn blade in your Art? Thanks, JR Ps In a humerous way, with no disrespect meant, Kembang Alas looks like a young Saddham Hussien with a bad hangover . No offence meant, man...
Ps In a humerous way, with no disrespect meant, Kembang Alas looks like a young Saddham Hussien with a bad hangover . No offence meant, man... **************** Hotdamn! You are right RC Just kidding Kembang Tristan
Kembang said: I've already detailed my army back-ground in previous posts, you can dig it up if it's important to you. ******************* Nah..Its not important to me, you the one started with talking about military background. Just wondering, are you a member of RPKAD? Or just regular ADRI? Your MOS (Military Occupational Skills/Specialty) is? If you do not want to disclose it, is okay and I will not asking you again In the USA, when someone from the military, they often exchange experience to one another. Its not improper to ask someone in the military what his MOS is. Of course we tend to brag about our Military background, we called it a war story. No offense intended. Tristan
Good to learn blade in your Art? Thanks, JR *************** Here we go again I think we are all understand that the silat is weapon based martial arts. We practice to think that any incoming is a blade or something sharp. Our understanding in using martial arts for self defense then must be NOT TO GET HIT. We must ingrain in our head that any attempt not to get hit is combination of movements. a) Lower body -We must move our body from the firing line. b) upperbody-Blocking, deflection, and redirect the incoming by using hand. With both combination of movements, you will be in the high risk. Many silat players still do the blocking without moving their body from the firing line or 12 o'clock (your opponent is always in 12 o'clock). You will be surprise to see many silat demo have this flaws.... We must get close to our opponent to counter attack but too far for our opponent to reach us for another attack. That is the concept of securing your perimeter. But I could be wrong too, Tristan
My turn.... In these cases,we can only speak from derived personal experiences. Myself, I have been in a confrontation or 2 with people that had knives. First thing I did every single time was CRAP MY PANTS! hey..chemical warfare But for me,none of this "wrist grabbing" and "defensive blocking" ever worked. I have found one thing that has worked for ME,personally and that was,god willing, to see the attack (what knife?!) and go on the offensive immediately! If I can't run and I can't see both of his hands... I start to bash the ever-living crap out of him as fast and hard as possible. Given the opportunity,beg,plead, bribe, do whatever you can to avoid the whole situation. But when that fails....fight! and fight hard and with all your might and all the heart you can muster! If his hands are in his pockets,keep them there. If they are in plain sight,keep them there!
Ps In a humerous way, with no disrespect meant, Kembang Alas looks like a young Saddham Hussien with a bad hangover . No offence meant, man... Lol no offence taken my friends ... close diagnosis though, it is the effect of bad chilli ... and age? I agree with you that traditional silat usually incorporated the use of a weapon, belati, trisula, golok or tombak etc. I also agree with Mas Tristan, that without practical use (this era usually doesn't provide the opportunity) such training loses it's edge and ends up being for the most part museum pieces, and I question its practical value. Does it improve timing and distance in an average empty hand fight? Maybe ... you would have to test it in real situation. IMO improvement in any art is a linear process and comes through accumulated understanding that stems from real experience over a period of time. This is true not only for individuals but in systems as well that profess to be a repository of knowledge. The question is, is it knowledge that suits the environment today? With-out the body knowledge of frequent real world experience, one's technique and skill is open to question as to its effectiveness. Empty hand skills are easier to keep current, because today it is the last defence anyone has and there are no societal problems with the parts of the body we might use as a striking weapon ... and also, it is easier to compete empty hand than it is to compete with a weapon ... except fencing ... or kendo ... maybe, but competition opens up a whole new set of problems unique to the artificial environment of tournament. I have a cousin-in-law who is an ex Philipines special forces and he plays Arnis. Arnis seems to me to be a very good practical compromise to learning to fight with an extension, i.e. holding a weapon of some sort that won't get you in trouble from the authorities. For Mas Tristan, I was a unit sniper in Recon, Spt Coy, 8/9th Bn Royal Australian Regiment (Royal Ausrtralian Infantry > RAInf) ... I was young and stupid, and now I am older but still stupid :bang: ! Salams
For Mas Tristan, I was a unit sniper in Recon, Spt Coy, 8/9th Bn Royal Australian Regiment (Royal Ausrtralian Infantry > RAInf) ... I was young and stupid, and now I am older but still stupid ! **************** LOL! Hoooah Recon! L Coy 75th Rangers and later team 2/2 Mike Force 5th SF group. I was young and stupid too and now I'm grumpier.. Tristan
