knees and elbows

Discussion in 'Kickboxing' started by M Lambert, Mar 7, 2006.

  1. kickboxingidiot

    kickboxingidiot Valued Member

    Now this happeend at a light continuous kickboxing club (NOT a muay thai club). Why a style that dont even enter MT matches allow things liek this to happen is beyond me!
    A black belt (with obviosuly no control) is allowed to knee someone(a 14 year old in this case) in the head so hard that his ears bleed, he feels dizzy and passes out for a minute(???).
    The instructor allows this? Sounds very irresponsible if you ask me.

    Now if you guys want to kid yourself that youre all "hardcore" why dont you compete under those rules?
     
  2. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    Who are you talking to? And what are you talking about?
     
  3. madmike

    madmike ow that hurt not

    1. learn to spell.
    2. the blackbelt is only 16 as well.
    3. i dont think he did it deliberatly.
    4. we practise knee and elbows in sparring to help relate them to real life.
     
  4. kickboxingidiot

    kickboxingidiot Valued Member

    In reply to your question Im talking to anybody who comes from a semi contact club and comes out with "oh we spar with elbows and knees anyway"

    As for MT fighters clinchwork and knees are an integral part of their arsenal.
    To a lesser extent the elbows. MT people tend to only (not all gyms of course) use elbows when a lot more experience and even so with elbow pads on and a great deal of control.
    The thais themselves are even more reluctant to use elbows in sparring!

    Now a lot of clubs that allow full powered knees and elbows to the head in sparring on a regular basis are either:
    1. irresponsible & dont know what theyre doing.
    2. probably dont teach good knee elbow technique or everyone would have massive cuts all over their faces. :D

    Proper Full contact or Muay thai clubs stress safety in sparring more than the mickey mouse semi contact crap clubs do.
    As it is in FC or MT clubs, generally their defense is good before they spar heavy anyway and proper protection is used.
     
  5. kickboxingidiot

    kickboxingidiot Valued Member

    I will address your points one by one.

    1. Spelling = maybe you should pay more attention in english lessons :p
    Your punctuation is non existent.
    Now if i am in a rush i dont have the time to correct typing errors made due to the sheer speed of my typing.
    Go get yourself some GCSE's or better still a couple of A levels if thats not too much hard work for you before you criticise me :p

    2. LOL , says it all :p
    He been a blackbelt for a long time then eh? The fact is a black belt should (a) know the rules (b) should have control over his technique same as an adult black belt or otherwise should not have that belt.

    3. You were making out that he did. You never mentioned it was an accident.

    4. Next time youll be telling me you spar with elbows to the head in sparring too :p
    Maybe youll think otherwise if a thaiboxer walked into the club and wanted to spar :D
    Let me guess you allow groin kicks in sparring to relate to reality too?
     
  6. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    Ok thank you for clarifying kickboxingidiot I completely agree with your post.
     
  7. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    There seem to be a number of different issues here.

    I think everyone agrees that elbows are very effective. Knee strikes can be as well. For that matter so are most close range head and neck shots, groin strikes and eye gouges.

    Whether you train in these techniques and how you train in these techniques should come down to the following question:
    What is the purpose of your training?

    If the purpose is to win competitions then you should train in the techniques allowed by your competition rules. If you are entering a competition that bans elbows and you spend most of your time training elbows as they are a really useful technique, odds are you will use your elbows.

    I do not have issues with pulling techniques in training (ie semi contact), but if this is the case you need to take steps to ensure that you don't do this in real life:
    1. Train them full power against bags and shields and focus mitts. The latter preferably held by a partner in such a way that makes the situation more real.
    2. Train them full power against a partner in a Redman or High Gear suit (caution - you are still likely to get knockouts with full power head techniques).

    Under stress your body will revert to a combination of flinch reflexes and your most drilled techniques. If you haven't realistically simulated eye gouges with oranges over the eyes or tomatoes in a skull then you won't be able to do them.

    If you want to train for the street, then training in an environment limited by competition rules (whether it be a traditional martial art or a modern form) will hinder you. That is not to say that those environments are bad, they're not, they are compromises. Wearing padding or going semi contact are also compromises - otherwise we'd injure oursleves and our partners beyond training ability very quickly. Everyone on this list who is interested predominantly in self defence has had to weight up which sacrifices they are prepared to make for the sake of training enjoyment or safety.

    JT
     
  8. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    Good post JT... though now Ive got an image of people sparring with oranges taped over their eyes!
     
  9. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Well the oranges over the eyes works best for when you pre-empt with an eye strike, unless you want the other person to practise fighting blind.

    Most eye attacks - at least gouges as opposed to scratches - happen by accident. The majority of humans have a natural resistance to gouging someone's eyes.

    Ultimately the difference between what we say we'd do in a fight and what we can and will do comes down to training.

    JT
     
  10. madmike

    madmike ow that hurt not

    well its was an accident as far as i dont think he ment to knee me as hard as he did. also as i said in another post for not semi contact club its odd that the same black belt came in with his first fc trouphy. also whats wrong with trainning knees and elbows for real self defense?
     
  11. kickboxingidiot

    kickboxingidiot Valued Member

    First FC trophy?
    WHICH FC show are you on about? Does it exist? LOL
    Or was it a secret show at a secret venue.
    Maybe another interclub that you consider to be FC :p

    As for training knees and elbows for self defense, yeah sure why not!
    Only problem i have with pretenders like you is you will spar with knees/elbows against each other but wont compete with them (???)

    Why spar with knees and elbows to the head if youre knees and elbows clearly arent even worthy to use under thaiboxing rules?
     
  12. chopper84

    chopper84 New Member

    if you want to use knees and elbows...............quit kickboxing and take up muay thai. Simple as that really. i used to do kickboxing before i took up muay thai. we were ' taught ' how to use knees and elbows. it was all rather farcical really! the knee strikes consisted of simply lifting your knee up in the air. no attempt was made to arch the back, push the hips into the strike or come up on the ball of the supporting foot at the point of contact.....basically anything that would add any real power or impetus to the strike. besides, if the rules of kickboxing as i understand it do not allow clinching, knees become vastly less important anyway.
     

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