knee arthrosis and patella tendon pain

Discussion in 'Disabled Martial Artists' started by julio kodokan, Oct 12, 2008.

  1. julio kodokan

    julio kodokan MUAY THAY & BRAZILIAN JIU-JITSU Student

    I am 52 years old, doing karate and judo for 25 years (and now a bit of kravmaga)....a bad knee is bothering me.Nowadays I have from time to time a strong pain in the patella tendon and first signs of arthrosis in the MR scanning.That comes from biomechanics alterations after a fracture in a car accident 30 years ago.My routine now has been no jogging and stationary bicycle,a lot of stretching before the trainning and taking condroitin and glucosamine suplements.I am doing less kicks with the bad leg, and I am doing less karate...kravmaga and jiujitsu seems less traumatic to the knee than the shotokan low stances.What is even worst is the fact that I am a surgeon and doctors always think the worst can happen :-D e.g. to not be able to train.So, one thing is the objective disable joint the other thing is the disable mind when you are afraid to loose what you love in your life....Does anyone has a boring experience like this? :bang::bang::bang:OSS juliokodokan
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2008
  2. BentMonk

    BentMonk Valued Member

    I Feel Your Pain

    The chondroitin and glucosamine is a good idea. I would also recommend taking a lot of fish oil. GNC has an orange flavored chewable that tastes decent and doesn't have you burping fish oil all day. I'm glad to hear that you're not running. Running is a bad idea for knees period. The exercise bike should be helping, not hurting this problem. Consult a good PT. There are exercises you can do that will strengthen the muscles and tendons around your knee. This will decrease the work load on your joints. Have you considered studying Tai Chi? It is awesome for strength and mobility, with low impact stress to the joints. Tai Chi also has some of the most wicked martial applications. My CP plays hell with my knees. I have followed the advice I have given you. Some days are still better than others, but my mobility continues to increase and days with major pain are decreasing. I HTH. Best of luck to you. :)
  3. Tom O'Brien

    Tom O'Brien Valued Member

    Bad knees

    Knee injuries are the most common injuries in almost all sports, especially contact sports. I agree with alot of what Bentmonk said. I especially agree with trying to find the right exercises like leg extensions & isometrics for the muscles surrounding the knee. But don't be so afraid of the possibility of surgery. I have had arthroscopic knee surgery 3 times - 2X on one & once on the other. I am 60 yrs. old & I am taking TKD right now at my friends dojang until the construction is finished & I can open up my dojo again. As far as the mental part is concerned the old adage of the saying 'physician heal thyself' might actually apply. Good luck.

  4. julio kodokan

    julio kodokan MUAY THAY & BRAZILIAN JIU-JITSU Student

    Hej Tom I am very happy with your words...that is quite encouraging!LONG LIFE FOR OUR KNEES...what means long life for our practising.THANK YOU.CHEERS.julio kodokan
  5. julio kodokan

    julio kodokan MUAY THAY & BRAZILIAN JIU-JITSU Student

    Hey Bent Monk sounds very good advices indeed....Thank you !!!!!julio kodokan
  6. BentMonk

    BentMonk Valued Member

    Happy To Help

    You're welcome. I'm glad I could help.

    Tom - It sounds like you're stubborn like me. :) I may face knee surgery at some point. Thanks for sharing your experience.
  7. ralphie

    ralphie New Member

    I wish ALL of you the best...and I'm equally glad to hear that people are coming back from knee problems in one manner or another. I'm looking at this from a different perspective than you experienced veterans. I'm a 35 yr old white belt in TKD -- just started training a few weeks ago, having never done any type of MA before. I absolutely LOVE the training, and cant believe I didnt get involved when I was younger. I'm also not in the best physical shape (yet) and just this past week I dislocated my patella when my instructor had me execute my first attempt at a crescent kick!! I'm currently in a brace and I'm praying the orthopedic MD will give me good news for the long-term when the MRI results come back!!

    So while I cant pretend to understand the pain of an experienced martial artist who's injured, I can say this...I've heard a lot of war stories on this forum, and everyone seems to be finding ways to come back...

    Good luck and best wishes to you Julio...
  8. BentMonk

    BentMonk Valued Member


    Congrats on starting to train. It's never too late. Total bummer about your knee. As long as there's no major tendon or tissue damage, you should heal well. The supplements I mentioned might be a good idea for you as well. I wish you a speedy recovery. Keep training.
  9. julio kodokan

    julio kodokan MUAY THAY & BRAZILIAN JIU-JITSU Student

    knee arthrosis

    Thank you RALPHIE...
    Believe me MA are much more than fighting...MA are a life style...and there´s no age to get in...I hope you go back soon.Your decision makes clear that you fit to that life style!!! Cheers julio kodokan
  10. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    The idea that running is bad for your knees is a MYTH. Here are some articles discussing the topic.

    This one actually cites a study:

    An expert on the subject steps up to the plate (Dr. Reed Ferber Ph.D., CAT(C), ATC Assistant Professor, Faculties of Kinesiology and Nursing, Director: Running Injury Clinic at the University of Calgary):
  11. ralphie

    ralphie New Member

    That's for sure...I can see that in most of the adults I've trained with -- especially the black belts...
  12. Tom O'Brien

    Tom O'Brien Valued Member

    ralphie How's your knee?

  13. ralphie

    ralphie New Member

    Hi Tom,

    Actually I'm doing well. Just saw the MD again Tuesday and no real injuries to my knee...just some pulled (but not torn) MCL ligaments, muscle tissue and a bone contusion (bruising). No torn ligaments, ACL is fine, no broken bones and no cartilage damage. I couldnt have asked for better test results.

    My knee is moving much better now, much less pain -- got the big full leg brace off, now I just wear a patella stabilizer knee brace. I have to do 3 weeks of physical therapy, and after that the MD thinks I'll be fine to return to TKD training.

    Paying the copayments for PT 3 times a week is going to be more painful than the injury itself!!!

    Thanks for asking, Tom....Take care...
  14. John conner

    John conner New Member

    Hi everyone, i'm 19 years old and am currently recovering from my third knee surgery. I am a black belt in taekwondo and i fought in many tournaments including some at a world level but was forced to stop a few years ago when in training i took a devastating kick to the knee and ended up shattering my knee cap in three pieces. my first surgery i had a screw put in to hold everything together and tighten my ligaments to stop further dislocation. the second one they had planned to take it out but stripped pieces of the pin leaving little metal shards behind that my surgeon didn't notice for a whole year causing much wear and tear of the bone, and a very painful click every time i squatted, which lead me to the third where they cleaned everything up. since the initial injury all ive wanted to do is to get back in the ring and continue my training but all of my friends and family tell me i'd be an idiot to risk another injury. i just want to know if anyone has experienced similar events and if its possible to ever get back to what i used to be. I feel im much to young to throw in the towel but at the same time i dont wanna be collecting disability cheques for the rest of my life and not be able to work for a living. any advice or comments would be much appreciated
  15. oldgoat

    oldgoat New Member

    Running has not been bad on my knees. Quite the opposit. I've logged enough miles to go around the world over three times. Other than sprained ankles I've never had a serious problem or injury, INCLUDING MY KNEES. I wear good shoes and switch them daily, I stretch before each run, I never run on cement choosing pavement or a birm if ones there. I run on various surfaces & terrains i.e. desert, trails etc. I'm out the front door in the morning and just go were my legs take me. I don't baby myself but I do use my head as well as my legs.
  16. julio kodokan

    julio kodokan MUAY THAY & BRAZILIAN JIU-JITSU Student

    Hy John....I am Julio a 57 years old doctor stil on the run....I never was a competitor but for more than 27 years I am practising: judo, karate, kravmaga and from 3 years ago muay thai and brazilian jiujisu.I can imagine your sufering and how important is your martial art to you.For sure you can go on, but you need to adapt to your new conditions.I have a friend now with bilateral hip prostheses, kicking and sparing around in the dojo.You are very, very young and it helps a lot your recover...but it is going to be very helpful if you learn how to get fun and joy from your class without taking it as intense as it is when you are practising for a competition.Accept your limitations and do it for you....time and your doc will tell you how far you can reach! When you get older you will get to know that just to be there at the dojo is much more important than any medal you can win.Sorry....maybe I should no say that for a world competitor, but I hope it be useful to you.Regards....OSS
  17. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member


    I know that you have gone through a lot and although it may look bleak at the moment there is lots of potential for you to continue in the martial arts. You may have to consider whether you want to move to another art that is easier on your knees. There is also the possibility that with all this surgery you have a certain level of weakness/stiffness/lack of co-ordination that is causing at least a percentage of the disability you are presently under going. You haven't really outlined the end results of your injury so I don't really know what to say about it. I will say that the last time I had a knee injury it took 3 months for my knee to bend fully and a lot of further training before I was comfortable to return to contact sports. Don't be too quick to throw in the towel. Define what problems you are experiencing or worry you might have and see if these problems are real or only something you will expect will happen. I had one guy I trained with blow out his knee and although he had surgery which fixed the instability it took many months of weight training before he was confident to return to sports. Think about this and let us know what your goals are and what problems you think you have.



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