AirNick just posted a compilation video of KJN Sung Jin Suh in the media thread. I figured to avoid littering the media thread with discussion, I'd start this new thread to ask.... I saw some things in there that made me wonder.... are they things he made up himself? or are they part of the Kuk Sool curriculum, but those things that us "mere mortals" are never going to learn. For instance, there's his "fast hands" form, I saw in the video what looked like a brief snippet of a fan form, we've seen him do some sort of single straight sword form that is not jung gum hyung. Are these his own doing, or things he's privvy to being hier apparent to the throne? I mean, I've never seen KJN Alex Suh do any of these things.... so just wondering where it all lies. It's like how if you read the sword handbook it talks about how there are 4 sword principles and 6 forms for each principle. But all you ever see in common public curriculum are one form for each principle. So what of the other 18 forms?
From my experience, its half and half. Some of them are actual Forms from Kuk Sa Nim, and others are just plain made up. But, really, they are not made up as much as extrapolations of old sets and higher level principles. Remember, things at Master level arent as static as in the underblack belt levels.
there were two sword forms demo'd in that clip, the first is from the "cutting form" and the second is the second straight sword form (sorry can't remember their korean names) yes the are all listed in the ksw curiculum as for where they came from or who made them up, i don't know?
In the documentary it claims that Kuk Sa Nym taught that sword form to KJN Alex and KJN Sun Jin, they both are in the video doing the form. I don't think that it is a form they are teaching to others. :woo: Although if they keep letting people video them doing it I'm sure it is only a matter of time before we see others doing the form. As for the other cutting form I've seen other (Korean) masters doing that form. As for what happened to the other 18 forms ... that is a good questions. Does anyone have any insight into those forms? I also remember hearing that there were a couple of forms for each weapon. Does anyone know what happened to those forms? What about the moon knife and axe....I've never seen those around!!!
regardless of whether or not any of use whities will ever see the whole curriculum, it is a nice video...KJN Suh was quite skilled as a sadan!!! --josh
This is what I figured, along with: But I'm still curious about specifics. For instance, is the "fast hands" form just something KJN Sung Jin Suh came up with (which is fine, because it's sorta his signature form and it wouldn't feel right if others performed it), or is it part of curriculum way up there somewhere. I mean, one thing I remember reading here (I think hwarang_cl posted it) was that the cane form you see in video tape 6 doesn't really exist. Something to the effect of KSN just told him to do something interesting for the tape and he did. That was amusing to learn, but the form on the video is a pretty good one, as far as cane application goes. Really, it doesn't matter that much what is or isn't around. It's nice to see and nice to know, from a pedantic standpoint. But I've got enough stuff to keep me busy for a good long while as it is.
I always thought the "fast hands" hyung was either just the beginning of Oon Hyak Hyung without all the lower body stuff done really fast, or Woon/Oon Bee Hyung.
The "fast hands" form and the cutting form are both KJN SJS's creations. The first part of the "fast hands" form is Pyung Soo Bub 1 thru 10 a few times in a row. If you know Pyung Soo Bub, then study his motions and you will see it. He used to only demonstrate that part. Look at some of the videos from the world tournament in the late 90's and you will see.
Cool video!!! Thanks for sharing By the way, what is the form (hyung) he's starting at about the 53 second mark? Is there a name for it and is it longer?
Hey, thanks! I think I've seen GM In Sun Seo and Master Steve Seo perform it (and I actually went through the form at a seminar)... if it's not the same one, it starts the same at least. Would it be correct to presume it comes from a Chinese influence in Korean arts?
I believe it's Woon Hak Hyung. or maybe Oon Hak or Un Hahk... I've seen various Romanized spellings of it. And is the translation "crane on a cloud" or "crane over cloud"? I've heard both. Either way, it's a gorgeous form. One of the best performances of that form is by KJN Sung Jin Suh, from the clip you mention. It's from the 2006 European Championship and Masters Exhibition. AirNick (here on MAP) created a DVD of that event. PM him and see if he's still got some DVD's for sale.
couldn't tell you i'm afraid. i just train, i don't bother myself too much with history or politics side of things.
Well, I guess that all depends on what and whose version of history you go by. And Thomas, I know you are well versed in that whole debate, so I won't go into it. I can say that folks on the outside looking in at Kuk Sool hyung performance always say that it's certainly a Korean martial art but with Chinese influence. IMHO, seeing forms like Woon Hahk Hyung (or really, just about any of the black-belt level forms) certainly further that notion based upon the movements. I believe if someone just saw this form performed and had no idea what it was or what affiliation it had (e.g. nothing like uniform insignia to give it away), they'd probably think it was a Chinese form. It certainly doesn't look like TKD or Tang Soo Do poomse, or Karate Kata. But is this all from the Ship Pal Gi base that, depending whose history you go by, Kuk Sool is based upon? Well, I guess only SUH In Hyuk knows for sure.
I'm sorry, guys - I wasn't trying to start any sort of political debate and I really do appreciate you sharing your knowledge with me. As far as the "chinese" influence goes, I know that Kuk Sool Won represents itself as a collection of remnants of "kuk sool" (native arts) that were in Korea, some of a native Korean background and some from Chinese influences. The "official history" mentions that "Sah Doh Moo Sool" contained elements and traces of Chinese influence. Also the link of Bulkyo Moo Sool (Buddhist martial arts) would imply a connection to China (or even India) for some of the arts as well. "The three branches of traditional Korean martial arts: SahDoh MuSool, BoolKyo MuSool, and KoongJoong MuSool, were organized to form a single system known as Kuk Sool in 1958 by In-hyuk Suh, the founder and Grandmaster of Kuk Sool Won™." http://www.kuksoolwon.com/history01.html I really wasn't rtying to cause a problem, I presumed that KSW recognized a Chinese and Korean background to the art, as well as recognized that elements of the art come from various traditions and not just one pure art form. Looking at the form from the video, I presumed that the background was more Chinese than Korean... just my eyes talking and trying to fit the material in with what I know about KSW and its origins. Again, my apologies if it didn't seem that way.
