Kihon usefulness?

Thank you for this post. This is certainly a good practice for close quarters. For longer ranged strikes, I believe the focus would be more on a sharper triangular posture for both protecting vitals, reach and leverage, but that is just my experience.

As for hitting things coming at you, this builds power, while hitting things moving away builds speed. Not to change subject but I describe hitting something moving at you as "catching them with your strike" or in other words you guide them into your strike. Striking someone moving away I describe as "blowing through them like a fire hose" or catching them off guard and attacking right through them. I think both are useful, not just one or the other. The essence of combat often ends up then more like an accordion, blowing through the opponent and closing to close range, pushing them back to further range, and again blowing through them to close range, etc.

Kihon is very generic movements, IMHO, and to apply those movements to something more "real" needs experience. The usefulness of Kihon is therefore dependent on the experience of the individual. To a beginner it is basics or a starting point... to a more experienced student, it is "going back to basics" which is not the same thing as having never done it before.

 

I'd like to explore that more (the core techniques, that is).

With the knee dropping, does that not usually raise the heel off the ground therefore compromising stability?

 

"mitsurin dachi"

 

I've never heard of jungle stance before...

I would have thought it to be like Fudu dachi? I know with that stance a big advantage on the hip twist is going from fudu dachi and locking in to zenkutsu dachi, thereby allowing more power to be generated...

 

Move forward pushing a car with your heel on the ground.

Dance with your heels on the ground the whole time.

For dynamic movement and stability when hitting an object your heel does not have to be on the ground - in fact you will have more adaptability and fluidity in your balance if it is not.

 

Yep - I nearly chucked in that learning Karate is like painting by numbers, just for good measure...

But anyway, my point is that it is a system, where you learn things layer on layer and each has its own part to play.
And it can produce devastating results.

 

I think I might have come across as a bit stupid here - I understand that the heel lifts and plants naturally, but I thought as a part of kihon the aim is to keep it planted to develop muscles and the like

 

as far as i'm know, it's not that the heel has to remain planted, per se, but that the power has to focus on the heel and not on the ball of the foot. then it doesn't really matter if it's planted or not(although planting the heel makes it a bit easier, especially on short stances). it's like pushing with the base of your fingers or with your palm heel.

 

Which is kind of funny since the body instinctively raises the rear heel to do so when punching and there is yet to be a single study that shows that heel down generates more power.

One interesting difference between heel raised and heel down is that if you have your heel down in fudo dachi, you cannot thrust forward against someone without straightening the leg, whereas if you have your heel up you can thrust forward against them while keeping the dynamism of a bent leg. Pretty crucial for explosive movement when employing forcea against incoming force or just requiring instant dynamism forward. This is why a sprinter has the rear heel lifted, as does anyone pushing a heavy object and trying to move forward rather than hold.

There are occasional times when my heel is down - when I use kiba dachi (which I actually use in CQB a tremendous amount), or I'm just standing and talking, but simple experiments have convinced me that when driving forward or bracing against an incoming weight* heel up is best.

*I do find that heel down is best when bracing against an incoming force with a spine aligned vertically with the front shin - because such a vulnerable (and weaker position) needs as much foot space on the ground as possible to shore it up. That position may resist small incoming force (ie where the opponent's entire body mass is not charging through you) but lacks the mobility to move forwards or sideways without lifting the heel. However, if the spine is aligned with the rear shin the body has a more stable braced position for attack and defence and consequently the heel can be kept up thus giving instant fluidity of movement.

 

i would proberly agree that heel up is the best as well. but i think its proberly a matter of personal preference.

 

This is a very good discussion. I think there are some good points here that might be good in a new thread about the differences between karate and boxing punching.

 

Maybe we should develop a training vs practicality sticky where we can dispell the myths and differentiate between training tools and practical usage? I think it has the potential to be very well received!

Anyone interested?

 

In our style, we lift the heel to get the extenstion and hip rotation for gyaku-tsuki.

 

So do we, and we do shotokan. Difference is (maybe!) that we would technically only do this in kumite.

 

Sorry - not in kata and not in basic basics (if you get my drift?).
The heel lift with exaggerated hip twist only works momentarily as you snap out the punch and pull it back; I think it might be the next step (sorry) on.
But anyway (IMHO), gyaku-tsuki in a rigid basics stance is bad for your knees