Possibly Shotokan, because of its low stances, builds up the mucsels in legs, hips and back. Also because of the way it connects to Chinese Shaolin Kung Fu, a link which sadly has been lost. But is preserved within some clubs in the KUGB, JKA etc. "Follow the Way with honor, and be like the nature of water"
Matey, I think you're gonna get cussed for that! (not by me - I like Shotokan - but I'm something of a minority around here!)
I am interested in the styles who are hardcore and also wonder about the effects this can have on your body in the long term. Are there any excercises that counter or help prevent any ill effects of this type of ongoing hardcore physical training? Please do not think i am trying to criticise the hardcore element I am just curious?
I give it to Kyokushin and Goju. A Goju instructor I met once did knuckle push-ups on rocky asphalt... I'm talking a 200 pound plus pounds on the knuckles. Incredible conditioning. Not once did I see him even blink. There was a Kyokushin guy I sparred against as well, and my shin remembers him well. :Angel: He took a teep in the ribs and actually smiled. That could be attributed to just overall toughness, but I felt my shin literally splitting. He just smiled.
I do Shotokan, and it definitely has the leg-killing stances. However, I think Kyokushin gets the win for fighting like madman. I always found it strange that they didn't use head punches in competion, though. The head kicks make up for it, though.
No offense, but the Japanes methods of conditiong looks very hurtful to the hands in the long run. Looks like it'll lead up to arthritis, deformity, etc. Punching metal shields every day isn't good for your hands.
I've never heard of anyone contracting arthritis from hand conditioning, Funakoshi sensei practiced hitting a makiwara every day for decades, and I never heard of him suffering from arthritis - of course everything needs to be practiced properly and with common sense
ever heard of mas oyama? he couldnt even write in his later years. as for most hardcore id say kyokushin and its offshoots. sorry to say but I have never heard of or seen a shotokan school that comes close to the intense training most kyokushin schools go through. ive always thought shotokan was considered a bit of a soft option as far as karate goes (which is why its so popular)
You know if I had to guess who'd be first make an ignorant pointless comment like that in this thread...it would have been you. How many Shotokan schools have you attended? How many Kyokushin Schools have you attended? Just because one school places focus on the development of the mind as well as the body doesn't make it a soft option. You shouldn't pigeon hole an entire style based on your own lame experience,
This is probably a bit late, and I am sure many have noticed it before... But nice sig Ikken. I'm sorry, just imagining Tyson saying that with his voice... Priceless.
I would say, like anything else it depends on the particular school you attend, I've seen good and bad, easy and hard in everything. I am a Shotokan stylist but have also trained in Kyokushin for a couple of years at black belt level within the Kanamura organization out of NY as a supplement to my Shotokan training. The training was definitely hardcore and I learned a lot that washed over into my Shotokan training, I especially liked the Goju element. As far as it being harder training than Shotokan, well I'd just say different. My Shotokan training was at times so hard I wondered why I was even there! I think they were a close match. The first time I did kumite at the Kyokushin dojo I had a little trouble adapting to the leg kicks but they had trouble being swept by me. They also didn't like the fact that I aimed for the head. so I think things evened out, like I said not better or worse, harder or easier, just different. Now on another level I find Shotokan more precision based in their techniques and able to deal with distances better. I also get (or got) more substance from my Shotokan training than I found in Kyokushin. Some form was neglected in place of shear fighting fierceness. I also thought the Kyokushin kata were a little shallow or lacking in application or history (at least the way they practiced them), they more or less just performed them but didn't delve as deeply as the Okinawan systems or even as much as Shotokan and Shotokan was never known for it's bunkai. Comparing Shotokan to Kyokushin is walking a thin edge as far as claiming it's better since Kyokushin is part (1/3?) Shotokan. Mas Oyama liked the "power" of Shotokan from what I understand although not liking the training of Funakoshi much. But never the less he did train in Shotokan and added it to Goju and whatever Chinese system he studied and there you have Kyokushin (possibly some Korean element also?). Kyokushin has some great fighters and there is no doubt about that. Anyone wanting to learn more about there fighting should definitely try the bare knuckle fighting systems. However Shotokan is pure clean and precise power and against Kyokushin definitely a good match. This is why Mas Oyama adapted it. Remember it's not the system though; it's what you do with it or how much you understand it. "Proper" conditioning shouldn't lead to Arthritis from what I've read of recent research, but constant breaking of bricks, ceiling tiles and other hard objects might, such as Oyama did. Just my view from both sides of the fence. A Shotokan stylist and Kyokushin lover from way back. There is a lot to learn from both. If people would start looking at the "similarities" rather than the "differences" in systems, we may get somewhere. EDIT: My appologies, after re-reading the original question the poster asked specifically about conditioning. While I maintain my above comments I would have to add that I believe Kyokushin does more conditioning than the "standard" or average Shotokan dojo. As far as more than any other system, I can't say. These things tend to vary from instructor to instructor also. Tommy
Power? What's this, Tommy? I've never heard anything about the power of Shotokan. Is it like the power of the One?
"A nice angle board will allow someone to play havoc on your solar plexus for boxing preparation." Never heard of this either, what's an angle board? Do you 'like' jump and impale yourself on it? Oh, and Ikken, I like your signature too.
Depends on your exact definition of hardcore, and also what the purpose of the conditioning is. There are styles that consistently produces combat worthy fighters through rigorous training and conditioning, but there are a large number of karate styles (people have already mentioned) that have some very hardcore training methods that seem punishing to the body. Conditioning is only as good as the thing you are conditioning for. There is no point in intensive conditioning unless you're going to do something with it, e.g. fight, withstand great punishment, etc. I would say Kyokushin has the most realistic conditioning for the purposes of fighting and to me that's all that counts but others may disagree of course.
