karate vs boxing: more 'practical' in street fights?

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by yuen, Jul 23, 2011.

  1. Madao13

    Madao13 Valued Member

    Isn't the fact that boxers don't use kicks a big disadvantage to them? I mean it won't mean much against guys who had no training but against practitioners of arts that have a big variety of kicks in their arsenal?? Are boxers training to deal with this kind of disadvantage?
     
  2. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    I don't think its a major dissadvantage to be honest.

    boxing consistantly produces tough competent strikers who understand range, timing and have solid footwork, those things are more important than diversity of arsenal in many ways.
     
  3. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    Oh, we hadn't had one of these threads this week.

    Now let's propose who would win between Ali and B Lee.

    .....
     
  4. Madao13

    Madao13 Valued Member

    Maybe it's not such a big one since as you said boxers excel in so many areas in comparison with other stand up fighting arts, but the fact that for example they aren't used to look out for a kick in their legs is a disadvantage, especially if this is one of the basic strategies of their opponent.. Well no style is perfect and one style is bound to have some disadvantages towards the other and since this is a MA vs MA thread it would be a nice change to hear from the people that have studied both a constructive comparison about the common areas these two martial arts share.. Usually in these kind of threads people stay only in the fact that it's wrong to say that a martial art is superior to another and that it's the practitioner that makes the difference.. This is all good but not very informative..
     
  5. Madao13

    Madao13 Valued Member

    Chuck Norris
     
  6. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    Correct. Well played sir.
     
  7. Lad_Gorg

    Lad_Gorg Valued Member

    I personally think that "isn't the fact that boxers don't train in taken downs and throws a big disadvantage to them?" a better saying. I find that takendown and throws are very effective in a given SD situation.

    But actually boxing is more than adequate for SD. The amount of sparring that you get during boxing training is more than enough to produce amazing fighters, which is good enough to take out an average bloke on the street.

    What I would say boxing is missing in, is throw, locks, take downs, weapons defence training(a big one IMO), use of pressure points, and just plain variety in the overal arsenal of techniques. But don't be discouraged from training in boxing, it's a more than able fighting system.
     
  8. Lad_Gorg

    Lad_Gorg Valued Member

    I actually can not agree with this statement. There are so many different things that make for an effective fighter. I won't lie, the fighter's ability to use what he has learned is a major factor. But to mark it in such black and white terms is naive.

    The style determines the techniques that we'll be familiar with. So the style(s) which we train in are where our limitations lay. If we train in Boxing, we're only really good at boxing techniques, were as if we train in Karate, we will learn kicks, chops, some throws, elbow/knee strikes, pressure point attacks, etc. etc. So under this lens of analysis, we can determine that Karate is better suited since it gives the practionare more techniques to defend himself with. But under another analysis, we see that boxing often has more conditioning and sparring training than in your average Karate class (I'm making an over generilization, srry kyokushin guys:p), which equips the boxer with more practical knowledge and experience than the average Karateka.

    Of course these things vary from style to style, but it also varies from school to school. So our instructors also have a big influence in our effectiveness.

    I believe a correct statement is that "it's mostly the fighter, and not so much the style". Doesn't have a nice ring to it though.

    Naturally we can learn techniques from various styles, and implement it into our personal MA; this was one of Bruce Lee's main philosophies. No limitations as a limitation.
     
  9. jumpfor joy

    jumpfor joy Valued Member

    it's like bad gas

    LOL ! I Karate in the am and Box in the pm. Both together are a great balence for me. I get what I need from both together. IMHO I do conbine the two when I practice, I pick what works for me. Generaly speaking I feel a boxer will out last, endurance wise and strengh wise and conditioning wise.
    Ha Ha... now if you take two well trained professional fighters thats a different ball game. Unless you have felt the steel pipe that runs over a boxers abs, good luck penatrating that with a kick or a punch. Karate points and chops etc will have to get through that defense. A well conditioned boxer, even a hobby boxer wont really feel body shots. Im my experience ...I havent really seen Karate schools touch on building those steel abs and protective muscle covering over ones ribs and abs. They seem to be focused on self defense for all sizes, boxing is more defense/offense fighting. I cant seem to figure out how to put video up here, but I will quote,"it's not how hard you can hit, but how hard you can get hit and still keep going".
     
  10. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    How many of you people have been in self defence situations? Or even a scrap at the pub?

    People seem to have very unrealistic expectations of what is going to happen in a SD situations.

    I think the only time I've seen a kick in a 'real fight' is when someone is lying on the floor and gets their head footballed.
     
  11. Madao13

    Madao13 Valued Member

    Personaly, I have never participated in a street fight. I have only witnessed some street fights, but noone of the people who were brawling had practised MA, so the show was always a little clumsy to make something out of it except that it would be easy for a trained person to handle a situation like that.. What are these unrealistic expectations you are referring to?
     
  12. jumpfor joy

    jumpfor joy Valued Member

    Never in a street fight... and I hope never to be in one. Enter into the home and it's Mr. smith and wesson, the perfect tag team for self defense.
     
  13. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    the original point and click interface :D
     
  14. jumpfor joy

    jumpfor joy Valued Member

    What time is it in Norway...fish?
     
  15. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    4 pm. why?
     
  16. jumpfor joy

    jumpfor joy Valued Member

    Just curious no real reason. I have friends in Denmark...didn't know if it was the same.
     
  17. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    oh, cool. yeah, should be the same. it's also one hour ahead of the UK and Ireland, iirc
     
  18. Lad_Gorg

    Lad_Gorg Valued Member

    If you wanna call it that, then yeh been in a one or two. Couldn't say they were SD situations, as with a knife or intent to kill. But a group of local thugs tried to pick on me for some stupid reason (can't remember). Well basically imagine a chimp throwing a fit :p I ended up throwing a bike at one of them xD

    You'd be surprised at how little control you can have in an adrenaline pumped state. (hence my inspiration for one of my earlier posts)

    But that was a looooooong time ago, when my training was young (say purple belt or so?). I haven't been in anything as serious since than, which I find is sort of the point of a BB; avoiding trouble before it even starts.

    But yeh, mate, you'd be surprised at how much fear and shock can be taken out of someone's system when you train in full-contact MA. As the theory will hold, you'd be able to gain more control over the situation and actually execute proper techniques even under such conditions.

    Truthfully, I see Muay Thai style low kicks getting more use than your average kick to the face. But hey, there are always execptions.
     
  19. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Well, this isn't exactly the best example, but one I certainly recall. Anyone remember UFC 118 - the former boxing champion against Randy Couture?

    Its not the only example. I suppose the only thing it proves is a striker with grappling skills under their belt ( and we could say that about Couture without too much debate ) and kicking/MT/Karate skills tend to give straight boxers a hard time of it. But then its not the most brilliant deduction, either.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. AlexCurrell

    AlexCurrell Valued Member

    Let's be realistic. Karate has quite an inaffective guard for street fights in my opinion. However, if used to it's fullest extent (take a look at Lyoto Machida) it can be quite effective.

    The difference is, is that Boxing's footwork tends to be a lot faster and teaches you how to get out of tough situations (especially if you do corner escape training). On top of that Boxers tend to train a lot harder and for longer periods of time than Karateka.

    I would say Boxing would be more helpful in a street fight as the footwork is quick, the punches are lethal and rely a lot on momentum which makes it hard not to go down when you're hit. On top of all of that, if you train in Boxing seriously you will have better body conditioning and be set up for being hit in the face a lot more than Karate would.

    Source: Personal experience.

    @belltoller and OP: GSP started doing MMA with what I'm doing; Boxing and BJJ. Boxing is extremley effective if you can just back it up with some grappling and knowledge of basic kicks. Then again, if you look at GSP he started out with Karate and says when he kicks he uses the roots of his kicks from what he learned in Karate.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2011

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