karate vs boxing: more 'practical' in street fights?

now i'm not saying that i want to be in one, but if someone tries to attack me, can karate or boxing (alone) do the trick?

i'm 1st kyu shotokan karate and maybe planning to do taekwondo.

yuen.

 

they both punch, they both evade, they both have footwork. fighting is something YOU do. and fighting is not an action in itself, it's simply a descriptor of a situation, which you participate in by doing several things, like hitting and avoiding getting hit.

boxers, however, generally train way harder than most karateka. make of that what you will.

 

i get what you mean, but i still dont get how much more can boxing help you in a real situation. all i know is that most of their punches are aimed on the head.
which is a good thing, as i find karate head punches not as effective as the ones used in boxing.

 

"most of their punches are aimed on the head."

nope. body-shots are your friend.

"as i find karate head punches not as effective as the ones used in boxing."

the punches are the almost the same in application. boxers train them more and generally to a higher standard.

also, bareknuckle punching to the head, unless you train specifically for it, carries a lot of structural risks to your hand, although they don't diminish the effectiveness of the punch itself.

 

i did i did!

 

I typically say it's the fighter not the style. But I'd be inclined to favour boxing over karate because it -- very generally, stereotypically speaking -- produces tougher practitioners simply by its very Spartan nature. I think it was Kuma who said most folks will try and punch you in the head so it makes sense to train in a style that specialises in evading, blocking and delivering punches to the head. At the very least incorporate boxing punches into your Karate training and Karate kicks into your boxing training.

 

Boxers do have strong punch's, good techniques when it comes to evading and such like.

and they do train alot aswell i agree likely more than a person who does karate (i dont know the facts behind this)

however boxing is a alot more sport...which is its disadvantage in a street fight (Tho i still would not like a really good boxer to land a cross on me)

however karate is made for street fighting, which gives it a advantage...its main dis advantage is some techniques wont work in a realistic street fight (or real one), or are less efficient...as a person who has done alot of karate i speak from experience, however im certainly not said it dont work, you just have to find what works for you, and what wont...matter of personal preference i guess

So its hard to say...both have pro's and there con's

i agree tho with many points previously said it just depends too...if you fight for instance someone who can actually (very unlikely however) kick and pull it off in a fight, karate practisioners would know how to handle this better but its unlikely a kick to be in a street fight.

"At the very least incorporate boxing punches into your Karate training and Karate kicks into your boxing training."

Defo agree with this...being a versitile fighter can mean the difference between a mashed up face, and a black eye and a beat up person not messing with you again...after all you cant expect to not get hit at all

 

Yes, yes they do

Again typically true, although not always.

You were doing so well until this point....then you blew it!

No it isn't and no it doesn't

So in other words it ISN'T for the streets then?

THAT is sensible!

The "sport vs street" is a nonsense argument usually from a position of ignorance or from those with a vested interest in perpetuating it. Fights are as often as not won by attributes rather than specific techniques and the attributes that are the most useful (speed, timing, endurance, mental & physical toughness) are best fostered in environments such as the "sport" of boxing.....there is a reason most hold Kyukoshin in such high regard when talking about Karate styles.

It is the METHODOLOGY that gets the results as opposed to the art - train Shotokan like you are in a boxing gym and you get a deadly fighter...albeit you also lose 90% of your students!

 

I know every time I get into some sort of altercation, boxing emerges from the shadows and eliminates my attackers.

 

"Originally Posted by Rider
however karate is made for street fighting, which gives it a advantage... "

reply: "No it isn't and no it doesn't"

Disagree there...it was not made for sport, it was made for self defence, and over the years, things change...karate is in stereotype..."traditional"...if you were to go back to when it was created...it would be more effective than it is now and karate is not known for sport, its known because people what different things...but mostly considered without the word "sport"...and with the words "self defence"
Originally Posted by Rider
its main dis advantage is some techniques wont work in a realistic street fight (or real one), or are less efficient...as a person who has done alot of karate i speak from experience, however im certainly not said it dont work, you just have to find what works for you, and what wont...matter of personal preference i guess

reply :So in other words it ISN'T for the streets then?

yet again i disagree...it was certainly not made for ww2...certainly not made for cage fighting...it was made for self defence...it is for the street...but it holds traditional roots which would be respected...it was once more effective than it is now

Originally Posted by Rider
its main dis advantage is some techniques wont work in a realistic street fight (or real one), or are less efficient...as a person who has done alot of karate i speak from experience, however im certainly not said it dont work, you just have to find what works for you, and what wont...matter of personal preference i guess


reply:The "sport vs street" is a nonsense argument usually from a position of ignorance or from those with a vested interest in perpetuating it.

I was doing the arguement from a neutral point of view for start...
second i think it is a valid arguement...some cage fighting techniques are not nessarly good on street...and some karate techniques, such as knife defence, spear hand to the throat...are not for cage fighting
reply: Fights are as often as not won by attributes rather than specific techniques and the attributes that are the most useful (speed, timing, endurance, mental & physical toughness)...

There all good, and yes fights are won likely by those...but without technique...that punch is weak...the attrudutes complement the technique as the technique complements the attridutes


It is the METHODOLOGY that gets the results as opposed to the art - train Shotokan like you are in a boxing gym and you get a deadly fighter...albeit you also lose 90% of your students!

i fact i have yet...to see proven


I love boxing...and i love karate...i mean not to put one above the other in anyway...i'm talking from what i know of then and have learnt from them...but im looking at a neutral prospective...im not going to favour one over the other from person feelings

 

1) Your argument is flawed because boxing was made as a self-defence art in it's roots so by your definition it is a street art

2) Proof of this assertion of effectiveness? I am not saying you are wrong, but on what basis are you making the claim?

3) Karate knife defence is generally appallingly bad - and the old adage of "ig you can't hit me with a 16oz glove how will you hit me with your fingers" applies.

Name me one cage technique that will not work in a street capacity

4) Attributes make a technique work, a technique does not make attributes work - think of a Michael Jordan basketball dunk compared to a high school player. His skill is attribute based, not technique based

5) Explain this point

 

does it wear a cape? please tell me it wears a cape!

 

Your argument is flawed because boxing was made as a self-defence art in it's roots so by your definition it is a street art

Look at tae kwon do...martial art, a great one...but when doing the sport side of it...hitting the head in a street fight wont get u point...it might get you killed...same goes for anything...in a street fight...sometimes breaking the arm, is more effective than knockout.....im looking at the sport side of boxing here...as a none sport fighting...i have never seem a pure boxing styled fighter...do a groin kick, break the arm in a lock, or break a kneecap...perfaps flawed in some ways but the argument is valid in many other respects

2) Proof of this assertion of effectiveness? I am not saying you are wrong, but on what basis are you making the claim?

history...karate was once banned by the japenese so that it couldn't be used against them...my proof...is history here...it was not made for karate kid and chopsticks

3) Karate knife defence is generally appallingly bad - and the old adage of "ig you can't hit me with a 16oz glove how will you hit me with your fingers" applies.

...at least it dose knife defence?...as for the fingertips comment knife hand can be used for many things...striking smaller vital areas that a knuckle cannot always acheieve max potensial...as a 4th dan black belt my father did breaking, wood, knife hand...fingertips

Name me one cage technique that will not work in a street capacity

you are fighting 2-3 people...are you doing to grapple...your face would be stomped...are you going to clinch...too many people for that also your best bet is one person infront of the other so the other cant attack, with 3, you need distance cant let them close in only 2 arms and 2 legs...2 arms in boxing

4) Attributes make a technique work, a technique does not make attributes work - think of a Michael Jordan basketball dunk compared to a high school player. His skill is attribute based, not technique based

try throwing a punch, and not following through, just tapping the person...not going to work...try throwing a punch without any snap or fast retraction...its a push, no matter how strong you are...its not going to hurt half as much...try doing a parkour backflip, you can physically do it, but without techniques...its your head that will land

5) Explain this point

...Dont be ignorant with me...i think that is obvious

 

Hard training + hard sparring + awareness

The only issue I had with boxing when i did it was there wasnever any self defense drills. This includes ground defense, weapons, multiple opponents.

Alot of the guys from the gym actively sought out fights as Well. Not the most practical self defense attitude.

Mind you. I would rather have to defend myself against most Karateka I meet than boxers

 

This is the same old tired nonsense always trotted out and it does not make any more sense now than it ever did.

Your posting style makes it hard to address specifics, but quickly off teh top of my head -

1) How much "Te" have you trained in...I'll answer that for you - none. Also get your facts straight - "Te" was never banned, it was carrying weapons that was which is how Kobudo developed (this is a historical oversimplification for the forum). So not only do you not even train in said art, your histry of it is wrong

2) Bad knife defence is bad knife defence - it is a nonsense to argue "hey, at least they do something". I would probably take a boxer ovber a kareteka due to sheer speed and movement

3) You clearly have no grasp of what "attributes" are

4) Try fighting 2-3 people when you are on the floor in ANY system and you will lose so again a nonsense argument - at least if you end up there and you have a knowledge of grappling you can get to your feet

5) No it isn't clear or I would not have asked - explain what you meant

 

1) How much "Te" have you trained in...I'll answer that for you - none. Also get your facts straight - "Te" was never banned, it was carrying weapons that was which is how Kobudo developed (this is a historical oversimplification for the forum). So not only do you not even train in said art, your histry of it is wrong

Your fact there?... you realise your are picking on someone with mental disabilitys, saying that he has not done the martial art...and you cant even seem to spell history and i picked up on that...i think i speak on behalf of all with disability that, thats just sad, and pathetic behaviour...as someone who dose martial arts...you should respect others opinions...and be a teacher when error is presented...the way you put it...is like a school bully...overy arrogent, and when presented with another opinion you turn nasty...THAT...is the sad youtuber attitude that has lost all other good things to say and results in the "gay"...comment

2) Bad knife defence is bad knife defence - it is a nonsense to argue "hey, at least they do something". I would probably take a boxer ovber a kareteka due to sheer speed and movement

you present a argument that is not neutral but on the side of something...therefore not a argument...that is yet again...the trolling

and you ignor what is said... absord what is useful and not what isnt...many techniques i have learnt are not good...some...are... and "hey at least they do something"...what like...move out of the way of the knife...or yet again back to 3 attackers...im not gonna stand there...run or fight...run is better...is you cant DO SOMETHING!!!...cus that something...might be what saves you

3) You clearly have no grasp of what "attributes" are

im not thick mate but i know some techniques done wrong...fail no matter what is done...technique...is very important...which comes naturally with the personal attribute...of commited as a commited person...usally have good technique...without it...you lose alot of power...

4) Try fighting 2-3 people when you are on the floor in ANY system and you will lose so again a nonsense argument - at least if you end up there and you have a knowledge of grappling you can get to your feet

like U said " knowledge of grappling you can get to your feet"...so these attributes you talk about...do they magically give you that knowledge?...no your get stomped on...and you completly ignored the argument...you asked a technique that would not work in street fight...a armbar with 4 attackers after you...your stomped

5) No it isn't clear or I would not have asked - explain what you meant

i provide no evidence...for a Reason!

you fail to make a fact out of it...and i cannot pull a fact out...nuff said

 

Sorry double post

but i wanted to add...when you accuse people of stuff without fact...like you said i hvave done no "te"...and them start insulting them

traditional martial arts...has a very strict sence of "discipline" ... When you lose this ... you lose one of the most important attrubutes of the martail art...when next a post is presented to me


If im wrong...which im no saint i make many mistakes...teach me the mistake...dont personally insult me with it...such is that of a martial artist and a practicioner of karate...There are 2 lessons to be learnt here

1: I perhaps needa double check facts

2: Respect people as a person...and as your duty as a martial artist

This is my view on the matter and as a martial artist

 

What does having a mental issue have to do with anything? It does not invalidate what you are saying anymore than it gives you free reign to say anything without being challenged - this is a DISCUSSION board after all

You have not trained in "te" yet are extolling it's virtues - the problem is that with no exposure to it you are just using conjecture.

Have you trained in Te? No, you haven't - pointing out a fact is not picking on you just because it is true

You did a typo on "does" but that is exactly what it is - a typo and nothing more...same with my mistype on "histry". Don't get petty for no good reason

If I take a position by definition it is not neutral - and saying you are wrong is not trolling

Or what kills you -a little knowledge is a dangerous thing

Technique is important, absolutely - but it is only one half of the equation. Attributes win out more than technique in fights.

You completely missed the point yet again - NO ART will allow you to survive a 4 on one on the deck and very few people would be stupid enough to take it there against 4 people.

Significantly there are very few arts FULL STOP that can work against 4...again the irony being boxing with it's hit and move approach would probably do better than most

This makes no sense whatsoever - I made an assertion with regards to methodology that has yielded results (Wallace, Urquidez, Consterdine, Thompson, Lewis just for starters) and you said you haven't seen it - that probably means you have not looked hard enough

You are really taking this personally - don't...we are having a debate not a slanging match

 

*sigh* read above - you have not trained in "te" have you? So I am right...so why are we arguing about it?

And where have I insulted you? I may have attacked your argument but I never attacked you

I HAVE NOT INSULTED YOU!!!!!

Martial arts are about fighting - any other benefit is ancilliary
Ad once again WHERE DID I INSULT YOU????

My duty as a human being is to respect people - my duty as a martial artist is to know how to fight