All these links have got my Blood boiling, I have nothing against Christianity, but alot of christians are so goddamn ignorant, grrrrr, i must stop myself writing now before i lose clarity, i'm just so mad!!!
I good friend of mine is a member of the Gospel Martial Arts Union (GMAU), his sensei is the son of the man that founded the GMAU. While I am not a part of the GMAU myself, I am a Christian, and it seems that many in this thread judge Christianity by the worst of it's examples. Just like any group of people, typically the worst examples of it are the loudest, and quite often the stupidest. The members of the GMAU that I know, those being the two mentioned above and several people I met while at their dojo (which happens to be in a church building) are all very kind people, not judging or ego-driven. They train hard and they welcome newcomers to their dojo, such as myself for a night, with open arms. The best examples of Christianity are not found in protest lines, on the internet ranting about silly things, but they are your neighbor, your friend, your coworker and your family members that go to church, follow the Word of God but don't rant and rave about it trying to shove it down your throat... Just my two cents.
Dude, you need to learn to read with some level of comprehension. You just posted a rant that re-stated the Christian poster's position ... which I agreed with. Your attempting to lecture me is laughable. I've walked this Path for over 41 years now ... YOU are how old? Yes, Pankration and some other things pre-date the alleged Shaolin Temple systems ... not necessarily so on the Taoist end of things. I agreed with Taff's position and then you stomp all over it by essentially saying ... "No JFS you are wrong to agree with Taff ... Taff was right." Huh? Gee ... really? How about considering this ... the two largest, global and most powerful of the Revolutionary groups are still very much alive today. There is exactly ONE Lofan ever made a full member (In the 332 year written - recorded history of these groups) by way of formal Blood Oath ... and you are reading his words. Doubt it? Simply show up Chinese New Year, 22 Mott Street, Chinatown, NYC and ask for "The Untamed Tiger." You are welcome to be my Guest as I have peeps coming in from around the World as well as several US States. I don't "know" things by way of myth ... I know them by virtue of being there and privy to documents & artifacts you will never even know exist. YOU are preaching to the choir. Total BS. The Hakka have a many centuries old tradition of their martial methods being directly tied to matters Spiritual in nature ... Sun Dar. There are a few ancient ... very ancient, Tibetan MA systems closely aligned with Bon-Po. You are really way in over your head attempting to get argumentative with me. Why don't you take a long, deep breath, slowly let it out and re-read your bombastic post. Then, be Adult enough to apologize for being an *******. So, yes, the above content was in FACT posted prior to your rant which did nothing more than restate the exact same position of Taff ... which I agreed with.
Well stated. Here's the "short answer" version: "Preach the Gospels always ... use words only when absolutely necessary." Peeps that are living a Spiritual dominant life don't need to wear T-Shirts proclaiming that fact ... their very lives are their declaration ... simply watch what they "do" ... it's obvious.
Yeah ... right ... you are one of those who walks into a Church ... sees a guy you know that is a Wife beating drunk and immediately conclude "Those peeps are like that." ... completely ignoring the other 800 peeps in attendance that day who are living decent lives. BTW, only a person suffering from Schizo-Affective Disorder can experience a moment of "clarity" ... is there something you want to tell us?
JFS, do us all a favor and dial it down and notch and take the large chip off your shoulder. This isn't bullshido and there's no need for that type of language. 1. My post was attempting to debunk the notion that Asian Martial Arts are steeped in "occult" and "mysticism." So I attempted to trace that many Asian Martial Arts developed outside of the temple system. 2. It's nice to know you're the only ever round eye member of the Triad or something like that. It's unfortunate that you're sitting on a lot of valuable historic material that you choose not to share. However, as an academic, I have to go on what the publicly available facts are. And thus my opinion was formed in them. 3. It sounds like we are saying a lot of the same things. So I'm sorry if you took my posting personally. 4. Note that I said that some Asian Martial Arts (and non-asian for that matter) did have a spiritual/religious component. The indeginous arts of the Hakka are an example. The point I was making is that the original Christian post stated that ALL did. And that just isn't the case and on that point we both seem to agreed. 5. I'd suggest going back to your post and taking a look at it. It can be read to say that you agree that all Asian Martial Arts had a "the strong occult powers entrenched in [them]." So that's my response, if you choose to continue to disagree then so be it. If you feel that I was being bombastic, I'm sorry. But I'm not apologizing for anything that I wrote. Beyond that, let's let it lie. - Matt
Well, even if some martial arts were founded with an occult influence, that doesn't mean they have to be practiced that way today. The gym I train at has removed almost all eastern customs and traditions from the practice. We are learning to fight and defend ourselves, not learning any new religion or philosophy. I would submit that the origin of the art one practices is really moot. The sins of the father are not the sins of the son...so to speak.
How the hell can you have 'Christian Karate'??!! Christians are supposed to turn the other cheek, right? So martial arts and Christianity don't mix! But by all means award black belts in cheek-turning.
Christians also have the same right as everybody else to defend themselves when necessary and to exercise.
I would like to point out that a lot of people on this thread have made this an issue with christianity. This is not an issue with christianity, it is an issue with igorant, selfish, closed minded, cloistered, idiotic people. The guy who wrote the article is a good example of one. I don't care if you are christian, jewish, or buddhist, if you can't be exposed to a beleif that opposes or disagrees with yours without getting the demonic spirit in you or some such nonsense, your faith isn't worth 2 cents. I can understand creating martial arts programs that don't contain religion, or creating martial arts programs populated by christians, but that article was just garbage.
I'm well aware of what forum this is ... thanks for sharing. Do yourself a favor and follow your own advice. Best for you to get your own house in order prior to throwing rocks. *1. My post was attempting to debunk the notion that Asian Martial Arts are steeped in "occult" and "mysticism." So I attempted to trace that many Asian Martial Arts developed outside of the temple system. Well, it just so happens many of them are closely aligned with things & practices that run counter to those who follow other traditions. Particularly "true" of MA systems developed OUTSIDE a Temple as no dominant, modifying influence existed. Peeps were free to do as they so desired and Old World Religions are generally regarded as being Occult like. Mysticism is as old as the first time a Human Being gazed up at the sky on a clear, star lit night and felt ... awe & wonder. Strike 1 on you. *2. It's nice to know you're the only ever round eye member of the Triad or something like that. It's unfortunate that you're sitting on a lot of valuable historic material that you choose not to share. However, as an academic, I have to go on what the publicly available facts are. And thus my opinion was formed in them. As an academic you should be ashamed of yourself. Seems you plea "out" based on your assertion that your opinions are limited by resources. Yet, you fail to properly investigate and delve into the veracity of your resources. Wishy - washy Ivory Tower Dweller mentality. Strike 2 on you. *3. It sounds like we are saying a lot of the same things. So I'm sorry if you took my posting personally. We are saying much the same and I don't take it personally. I quickly tire of peeps throwing rocks at those who opt for a more Spiritual based life ... I regard the rock throwers as bullies and I don't care for bullies ... save for slow roasted on an open flame. *4. Note that I said that some Asian Martial Arts (and non-asian for that matter) did have a spiritual/religious component. The indeginous arts of the Hakka are an example. The point I was making is that the original Christian post stated that ALL did. And that just isn't the case and on that point we both seem to agreed. True. However, and this is where it gets dicey ... the problem is one of how do you dis-integrate a culture or cultural practice yet still address the whole? For many Asians ... their MA method is a multi-functional vehicle ... "religious" connotations, Spiritual cultivation method, purely practical means of combat, ritualized moving meditation, means of naturally promoting good physical & mental health ... Difficult to tease out one strand and have it be meaningful. *5. I'd suggest going back to your post and taking a look at it. It can be read to say that you agree that all Asian Martial Arts had a "the strong occult powers entrenched in [them]." Bit of a waffler ... aren't you? Re-read your post and see how it can easily be interpreted as a rant without substance or merit. *So that's my response, if you choose to continue to disagree then so be it. If you feel that I was being bombastic, I'm sorry. But I'm not apologizing for anything that I wrote. Beyond that, let's let it lie. Have it your way. You "rationalize" which in this context is defined as "The attempt to make acceptable and reasonable that which is not." No more time for you ... you play word weasel with others of your ilk. Strike 3 on you. You're out.
Dear: [X] Clueless Newbie [ ] Loser [ ] Previously Banned Member [ ] Bruce Lee Wannabee [ ] Troll [ ] Spammer [ ] 13 year old l337 d00d [X] Flamer [ ] Whiner [ ] Book Taught Loonie You Are Being Flamed Because: [ ] You posted a Style Vs Thread [X] You posted a personal attack against a mod [ ] You should have used the Search Feature [ ] You posted the Real Ultimate Power site again [ ] You posted a thread in Ninjitsu asking about smoke bombs/night training [ ] You posted a MMA Spoiler in Traditional Healing [ ] You posted a thread stating you can run up walls [ ] You posted a 'Jet Li vs. Bruce Lee vs. Austin Powers vs. Superman vs. Godzilla vs. Oprah vs. That homeless guy down the street' thread" [ ] You posted an OMG The Sky is Falling thread [ ] You ressurected a long dead, stupid thread [ ] You posted a "YOU ALL SUCK" message [ ] You flamed someone and got burnt [ ] You posted a thread on Dux Ninjitsu [ ] You haven't read the stickies [ ] You asked why you can't get into the arcade on your first post [ ] You typed in text/leet speak [ ] You posted false information then refused to back it up. [ ] You posted a video/site we've all seen a thousand times before [ ] You posted wildly ridiculous claims, refused to back them up, and had a strop when we asked for proof. In Punishment, You Must: [ ] Take down all your Bruce Lee posters [ ] Stop posting and go to class 3 times a week [ ] Actually post something relevant [X] Read the Damn FAQ [ ] Go to your room with no supper [X] Apologize to everybody on this forum (execpt KnightCommander, who loves it!) [ ] Stand in the Sin Bin and do kata till you die of boredom [ ] All of the above In Closing, I'd Like to Say: [ ] Learn to type using ALL the correct letters. [ ] Welcome to last week. [X] Press Alt and F4. [X] Can I have your stuff? [ ] Don't let the door hit you in the ass. [ ] All your base are belong to us. Go every Zig. (actually it's take off every zig...noob ) [ ] Stop posting STUPID crap. [ ] All of the above. Have a nice day
Umm... could you please restate this as I just don't get what you're getting at. Perhaps you can better explain how the outside the temple system arts run necessarily counter to Christian beliefs? I really don't get your arguement here. This I take offense to. I am doing research. And I do go back to existing texts. I am interested that you have access to supposed secret info. But they way you represented it, you've got secrative knoweldge that you've decided to hoard for youself. My friend, I honestly don't know you from Adam, and if I went gaga at every person who claimed they had access to secret info, I'd never get any work done. Note that you failed to even mention the revolutionary organization that you are a member of. Instead you decided to play holier than thou secret squirrel. So please, don't get up in my face that I don't have your resources. I continue to work and I continue to study. So if you want to enlighten, honestly share and don't simply play the "I know more than you because I've earned it and you can't know this until you earn it" card. If you're going to do that, then you're not contributing the conversation. And if that wasn't your intent, I apologize, but that's what came through in your response. And you immediately jump to the conclusion that I'm some type of bully who doesn't believe this. And here I can say please do some research. I have on numerous occaisions, both on MAP and in other locations, noted that there is a linkage. And as other posters will note, I've spent quite a bit of time defending spirituality in numerous forms. However, I reject attempts to draw linkages where they do not exist. And I simply was stating that not all Asian Martial Arts have a religious component. I personally see little to not conflict between the practice of most Asian Martial Arts and my Chirstian identity. I partially agree. However, I still contend that the "relgious" component is often overstated and in many (though not all) cases was shoehorned into a phsyical/life cultivation system. And I'll contend that your posts, while containing merit, can be easily read as knee jerk attacks to having someone question your writings, taking a low-road reading of my text to make it seem more inflammitory. It would also do you good to take the time to not attack the poster. If half of what I have seen you post on numerous forums is true, then you are a heck of a martial artist. But based on this interaction, I can't say you're ever a person I would want to work with or engage in another dialog with. What I will happily apologize for is for any personal attacks that might have come through my response. I'm sorry for anything I wrote that might be taken that way. - Matt
:woo: Christian Karate!!!?????????? NNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:
Well, some people just have an issue with the word "Christian" being tacked on to anything because they just don't like Christianity...ever bring up the subject, this is how it will end up...
That really is the crux of the matter. I get a HOOT out of all the so called liberal thinkers who whine about the lack of tolerance for all things preverted, distorted, jaded, the lunatic fringe ... yet are so very quick to demonstrate a complete lack of tolerance for those who choose to live a life with a pronounced Spiritual bent to it. Funny!!!
