I was wondering how crosstraining in Kali (Sulwan)/Kuntao/Silat would compare to Defendo CQB, hearing it's (Defendo) very brutal, realistic and fast like Kali's empty hand. For those who do not know what Defendo CQB is: By CQB: "I've been training in Modern Defendo for over 2 yrs now. I presently am the Head Instructor for our Children's and Teen's programs (gotta love kids although they can drive you crazy!). Before MD I trained in Pankration for a number of years. I enjoyed Pankration immensely! The kickboxing game with the grappling game. Brutal. Full contact. Great cardio training as well. (I'm sweating just thinking about it!). Then I started bouncing at a night club and working as a loss prevention officer part time. I quickly learned that my Pankration training was NOT very effective for dealing with ejecting unruly patrons, effecting arrests, etc. Pankration was great for sparring or all out brawling. But for gradually moving up the use-of-force model during an altercation, Pankration left me with little options because the Pankration I was training in was more suited for the application of sport (ie. sparring, tournament fighting, MMA, etc). The application I needed to quickly get good at (ie. bouncing/security & law enforcement) led me to Modern Defendo. Before I go into more detail of MD, I wanted to quickly comment on the *similarities* between Pankration/MMA styles and MD. I noted that another member remarked that from what he could tell, MD was basically like his Pankration. I think he said this to make the point that he believes his Pankration training *already* covers what he believes MD is about. And I can understand how he came to this conclusion since there are indeed many similarities b/t Pankration/MMA and Modern Defendo. Much to a lot of people's surprise, training in our style of MD resembles the training in a lot of MMA schools. We use kicking shields, focus pads, full contact, stand up & ground fighting, the whole nine yards. But pls note some of the following differences: a) No rules. None. Nada. So we train to fight what some would consider "dirty". But it's not the same as some untrained street fighter who fights dirty. Ours is a "calculated" dirty, if you will. b) We address the threats of weapons (stick, knife, sidearm). c) We do control tactics. Our origin stems from the military & law enforcement. Here we find a number of advantages - we go over how to quickly neutralize the bad guy (BG) and we also go over how to take CONTROL over the BG (ie. executing an arrest). d) We train for close quarters. The name is Modern Defendo CQB (close quarter battle). We recognize the majority of physical altercations on the street happen within an enclosed space - and NOT within a large open area like a dojo. Therefore our techniques and methods for dealing with violence does not include any fanciful kicking or punching, or any movement which requires more room than may be available. So picture the effectiveness & power of Pankration COMBINED with calculated street-wise tactics such as attacking vital targets (eyes, throat, groin), further enhanced with control tactics, all with the objective to take control over / neutralize the BG, ideally within 15 seconds or less. That is our goal. Any longer than that and Mr Murphy starts screwing with us... with multiple opponents, weapons, fatigue, etc. In MD we strive to remain on our feet instead of taking the fight to the ground on purpose. Even if we were great grapplers (which many of us are), we still want to remain on our feet while on the street - in order to make a get-away, and also to deal with the potential for multiple assailants, etc. In Pankration we did not address these issues simply because again, they were not relevant in the sport arena. Like I mentioned earlier, if you were to visit our school (http://www.Wolfes.ca) you might think you were in a MMA school at first. People are really surprised that our training looks very much like a kick boxing / grappling school, because they assumed we were one of those hokey self defence schools that practice "fantasy-based" self defence. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Our training is hard. Some say hard-core. Others say it's too military. Whatever. We also train to fight "from behind". On the street you will panic when ambushed or taken by surprise. It's natural. To simulate panic we "pre-fatigue" ourselves during training. We go balls-to-the-wall (ie. plyometrics, drills, etc) - sometimes until some of us want to puke - and THEN we start training in techniques, trying to perform while under these extreme pressures. Anyone can fight when they are ready for it and are expecting it - like in many martial arts classes. But on the street you will probably not be ready for the initial assault. Sometimes you are. Other times you are not. We train for the worse case scenario. Again, MD originated from a military and law enforcement background. The objective was to neutralize the BG quickly and efficiently. The Wolfe brothers (Bill and Dennis) then added their own take on things to the system and that is what we now know as Modern Defendo. So yes we cross-train. But not with a sports application in mind. We are always open to more efficient methods for street fighting. Like we tell our students, we did NOT invent the techniques - they were derived from various martial arts systems, etc. Rather we simply adopted what we believed was the best for a street application. Nothign more, nothing less. heheheh, yeah the name "Defendo" sounds.... different. But for those who are familiar with military jargon will actually recognize the term "defendo" and know that it refers to HTHC training. Are we similar to other combative systems like Krav? I believe we are similar in "intent". We all want the same outcome. We just differ in how we get the job done. It's all good. I hope I was able to answer some of your questions. Actually, I hope I made sense if at all. I am currently a little sleep deprived so pls forgive me if I tended to go off here & there. I want to finish off with this... I've noticed from several posts/threads on the Web, that people, after reviewing our website, believe our system is nothing more than "hype". I cant blame anyone for that actually - I will be the first to admit that for the uninformed, the wording on the site may make an experienced martial artist more than a little skeptical, as there are too many wanna-be martial arts scam artists that are simply trying to make a quick buck. For us (the IDF and Wolfes) we're simply trying to "market" our system to our target audience - the everyday person who has no desire to be the next UFC champion, but rather, wants to learn how to defend themselves and their family should the need arise - and we want to do this in the most honest & straight forward way possible. Some of you may have thought that we were trying to convince people that our system works like "magic" where we can easily take on ANYONE... AND... we can train the average person to do so as well - hence: hype. In actuality, we simply train our students, and we train them HARD. We tell them there's no such thing as a magic pill for self defence. It takes practice and sweat equity, and sometimes blood! To effectively fend off an attacker will take a high level of aggressiveness, superior technique, and appropriate conditioning from the Good Guy. No mystism, no bull. Just hard work through hard training. I firmly believe we are one of those good guys - we actually knwo what we are talking about, and more importantly, we are one of the few schools that actually teach something that works for the street, for real criminal violence. Ask anyone who has personally trained with either of the Wolfe brothers or at Wolfes. We're the real deal, and proud of it. And so I humbly ask that for those who may have passed judgement over us earlier, to please rethink your views. If you're from a school that: a) teaches what works, b) treats your students and the public with honesty & integrity, c) and enjoys making an honest living out of something we all have immense passion for (martial arts & self defence), then know that we may have more in common than you first realized." Check out some videos here: http://www.defendo.com/defendo_web_site.htm
the blurb reads like any decent cqb course. i could've just as easily replaced the name "defendo" with "fma" or "krav maga". what are you trying to compare? your question: "defendo vs fma" that's like asking how would a "mb 300sl" perform against "a red italian sports car". there are many fma systems out there. some have empty hands, some do not. some have knife work, some do not. some have no weapons training at all and it's all empty hands. some are "complete" systems that have sticks, swords, knives, flexible weapons, empty hands striking and grappling. some are single stick only systems. you could be more specific in asking "defendo vs. ______kali system"
You may not be familiar with it, but its Sulwan Quon's System of Kali. But other than that just Kali that you have trained in. (I know everyones way of teaching is different)
Best way to find an awnser, stop by the Sulwan Kali academy, take a look at what their doing, talk to the instructor, try it out a class and then come to your own conclusions. There's so much diversity in the FMA its hard to say anything about a paticular art unless its widespread. Sulwan Kali seems like its mostly located in the west coast of the US. If you do stop by, I'd love to hear your experiance of what they do there. I've corresponded with them before but have yet to see any of their people move. Spike27, are you currently a Defendo student?
i have no basis of comparison. i have no idea what defendo looks like. actually i do know what the original defendo looks like but i have no idea how the modern defendo looks like. all i can say is that close quarter knife and empty hands of the fmy systems i'm exposed to are swift, direct to the point and indulge in overkill.
ok. i have to say that the fma systems i've been exposed to looks a lot more brutal than that. honestly, modern defendo and original defendo still look alike.
I had a look at the links, and it is good stuff and I am sure it served it purpose in the feild. But and it is a very big 'BUT'. If your also doing authentic FMA then stick to it, it is a lot more brutal and a lot more effective for the every day MAist, in my opinion that is. Best regards Pat
