Kali, Escrima, Arnis Debate

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by Crucible, Aug 7, 2004.

  1. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Er okay. Just making an observation. Seemed relevant.
     
  2. JKD guy

    JKD guy New Member

    "kali"

    My understanding is that the term "kali" was first used by Dan Inosanto in the 1960s. The Filipinos evidently don't use that term, they use "arnis" and "escrima". They probably now use kali because of the influence of Guro Dan. Some systems used to be called "XYZ- arnis", and are now called "XYZ-kali".
     
  3. krys

    krys Valued Member

    It was not Daniel Inosanto but Placido Yambao who came up with the word Kali.....
    Kali isn't understood by the majority of filipinos, what they all know is the term arnis and escrima in the Visayas.
     
  4. Bayani

    Bayani Valued Member

    The essence of the terminolgy KALI

    I myself preffer to use KAli. But truth is Arnis and eskrima are the terms popular in the Philippines but the terminology has foreign roots. I believe that those that choose to go with Kali from an Historical point of view do so to go with a term of Filipino origin dating back to the influence of the sri vijaya and madjapahit empire choosing to go with the hindu goddess kali and to the use of KA as a pre fix or rootword to the Filipino language very often used. Ka-tawan (body) Ka-kain (to eat) Ka-kan...ta (to sing :) ) Ka-this ka that. You will find it also in the Kali -kalihan , SOme places have names that start with the prefix. Which to my surprise is a real gathering that still goes on and has a body count and one of it's players in jail for manslaughter despite the release of libility for the fight to surrender policy ending in accidental death. But that's another story. SO the use of "Ka" as a pre fix can be Filipino in terms of language?, now the question is where does Li come in? Well we could always use "bruce Li" :) just kidding. Some I have heard use the term Li- from "Lihok" (movement ) Ka -for katawan so body -movement, also you have "Kamay" Hand -lihok (hand movement) . Hearsay ? Yup that's the problem with our History but the essence of its use is what really matters. If using Kali and changing arnis or eskrima to kali for the essence of a more Pilipino origin then so be it.

    Many have relegated Kali to a more Muslim term from the south. Still hard to find many who use Kali in the Mindanao but for those who relate Kali to the fierce warrior spirit of the Moros who's art or moro moro fighting is more bladed thus focusing their style of FMA as a bladed art rather than impact (stick) thier lies the relationship to the essence of the term.

    In the end it's what you are able to do form the art as what you are able to say .
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2004
  5. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    I have an old Dictionary somewhere, (I will have to dig it out) cant remember which Dialect it is in now, But I remember reading the term Kali being translated into English. "Kali" = Blade longer than a knife.

    When I find the dictionary which I bought in Manila in 1992, I will let you know when were and who published it. Maybe it is still available in the national book store :confused:

    Al the best


    Pat
     
  6. Bayani

    Bayani Valued Member

    Kalis is a type of blade found in the weapons of moro land plaque.
     
  7. krys

    krys Valued Member

    Poll : Who doesn't own the plaque "Weapons of Moroland" :D ?
     
  8. Diego_Vega

    Diego_Vega Frustrated pacifist

    None in my house in Manila.

    BTW, as a generic, I just call it FMA right now.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2004
  9. david f

    david f New Member

    When Antonio Ilustrisimo was alive his system was known as Olisitrisimo (an acronyn of olisi= stick and his surname Ilustrisimo). Later it was changed to Kali Ilustrisimo. Several years after the death of Tatang, Antonio Diego decided to use the name Kalis ilustrisimo.

    To this day, Master Yuli Romo, Master Christopher Ricketts and Bakbakan, still use the term Kali Ilustrisimo.
     
  10. Peter

    Peter Valued Member

    Hi David

    Hope you are still enjoying the training and research in the Philippines.

    Master yuli Romo uses the term Kali as derived from the Visayan words Kamot (meaning hand) and Lihok (meaning motion), therefore his use of the term means 'hand motion.'

    I understand that the term Kali was used by Placido Yambao in his original Tagalog text, making this term approximately 50 years old (or more!). In general, i think the term is not derived from other words, but simply means 'War Art' or 'Combat Art.' this would be similar to the Japanese term, Budo meaning Way of War!

    Hope to hear from you soon.

    Best regards

    Peter
     
  11. shootodog

    shootodog restless native


    er...mga bisaya! help me out here. isn't olisi= to cut/ slash?
     
  12. krys

    krys Valued Member

    If I remember well olisi means stick in bisaya....
     
  13. Bayani

    Bayani Valued Member

    Olisi means "istik" (bisaya accent) :D correct is krys. I would like to hear DIego Vega's thoughts on this thread. Diegoooo?
     
  14. surgingshark

    surgingshark Valued Member

    I havent seen a Weapons Of Moroland plaque since I left the Philippines :'(
     
  15. shootodog

    shootodog restless native


    bisaya ka man gid? thanks. though the old man prided himself that his art was all about the bolo.
     
  16. david f

    david f New Member

    Hi Peter,

    Yes things are going well here and I have another 5-6 weeks to go before heading home. Met with Master Yuli last weekend and I am hoping to meet with him this week. Great master of his art and has a thorough and remarkable amount of knowledge about the history and development of FMA.

    Having a copy of Yambao's book andthe book 'Classic Arnis' by Master Rey Galang, I can verify he term kali is used quite regularly within the original book.
     
  17. Diego_Vega

    Diego_Vega Frustrated pacifist

    My non-thoughts

    I'm not sure why there should be any debate on this topic at all. There are better topics to debate: was fma's popularity in the Philippines destroyed by a tormented generation of schoolchildren being forced to wear shiny yellow pants and camiso de chino training uniforms; who's the best looking fma action star - Roland Dantes, Lito Lapid or Ronnie Ricketts; how come the really talented Asian guy gets killed off in the first 10 minutes of the movie and has to be avenged by his white buddy who?s only been taking lessons for two weeks? People should be able to call what they practice whatever they want. "Kali" is a termed that is gaining recognition here in the Philippines. People didn't know what I was talking about in 1995 when I mentioned kali, today, they do. Arnis is still more popular and eskrima is recognized as well. Most Filipinos do not see "arnis" as a martial art, like karate or judo. They see it as stick swinging done mostly by baranguay tanods (kind of like village guards). The term "kali" allows them to separate the martial art aspect from the stick swinging aspect ( to be fair to my people, there is nothing "artful" in the way barangay people handle their sticks). But in the end its just a name. If you go to Bicol region as ask for patis (salty fish sauce), they will give you soy sauce. In order to get patis you have to use their name for it, "Rufina." The movie that I knew as "Love Story" (Ryan O?Neal, Ali McGraw) was called "The Promise" here in the Philippine; the TV series that I knew as "The Iron Samurai" was called "Lone Wolf and Cub" here; for all I know Star Trek may have been called Sulu's Outerspace Adventures. It really doesn't matter.

    A rose by any other name still has pointy thorns.
    :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2004
  18. Bayani

    Bayani Valued Member

    Diego wrote:
    "I'm not sure why there should be any debate on this topic at all."

    But you sure are a "Masterdebater" :D and a "cunninglinguist"
    (Austin Powers)
     
  19. Crucible

    Crucible Valued Member

    That's the best awnser I've heard yet :D So, who is the better looking FMA action star :D ?
     
  20. ptkali778

    ptkali778 Valued Member

    if other people look up to bruce lee while they're growing up, my local hero is lito lapid, fernando poe jr and ex-president joseph estrada. :D as a kid growing up in P.I we play fight, and would mimmick and say lito lapid with his block and hook punch, fpj with his rapid punch, and estrada with his cymbals :D .....jus being playful sorry guys...
     

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