k-1 seoul, the final straw

Discussion in 'Kickboxing' started by Ikken Hisatsu, Mar 22, 2005.

  1. Eero

    Eero Valued Member

    I thought so too. Maybe the decicion was just for the Korean audiences. Kaoklai did fight better I think.
     
  2. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    K-1 Imitating vid games imitating reality and myth

    Some very salient points by both crowds here.

    One thing is regards to K-1 is the art imitating reality or would that be reality imitating a video game?

    Think about it...
    From the land of the Playstation, Gameboy and CapCom and countless other vid games comes K-1... so these kind of matchups are almost expected in Japan. :eek: I think the Japanese would lose interest otherwise. With all the Japanese cultural mores regarding honor and being a warrior and all that - can you imagine if they stopped having Akebono in? He's like a friggin' national hero in Japan. In the west most people have no idea what kind of regard he's held in. In Japan even grandmothers know his name. It's insane. So of course there is a huge draw for him.

    On top of that the Japanese have some of the most radical and unique mythology, folk tales and ghost stories - so these match ups mirror that same kind of a thing. The massive size differences - the underdogs the freakish giants etc. - all of these fit into that same vein.

    Many of the fighting games characters are based on real life fighters - with one even doing the spooky Ramon Dekker head twist. lol. So I think now it's come full circle and they're looking to subconsciously immitate the video games that most of them have grown up playing. lol.

    Ok - that theory and $2.50 will get you a cup of coffee @ Starbucks. :D

    afterthought... this will be my masters thesis. LOL! :eek:


    As for Kaoklai - I am 6'2" and I wouldn't want to have to fight the guy. LOL. :D
     
  3. bcullen

    bcullen They are all perfect.

    Wow! I turn my head for a few and look what happens.

    I can't argue the entertainment value of a freakshow battle but couldn't they do it under another banner. I thought seeing skilled fighters like Remy and Michael McDonald was what k-1 was about.

    K-1: is Fine as it is
    WWE: Is what it is
    Mixing the K-1 and WWE: Is a borderline marketing strategy and a real bad idea.
     
  4. johndoch

    johndoch upurs

    I totally agree.

    I thought Kaoklai really saved the whole show plus the fights he had on the way to the final were way harder and more entertaining than the giant Korean's fights(What was his name again???). It's just a pity that his earlier fights were overshadowed by the freakshow element of the event :cry:

    Who did the Big Korean fight? Two sumo guys who shouldn't have been there in the first place. The Akebono fight was an absolute disgrace and the other one wasnt much better.
     
  5. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    Just out of curiousity who do people think Choi should fight? Im assuming people shouldn't think that he shouldnt be allowed to compete just because of his size so who can he fight? Like I said on the first page if they create a super heavweight division then the problem would be solved but until they do that I think its abit unfair of people to just slam fighters like Choi all the time. Its not exactly his fault he is that size and as for being completely unskilled I dont know I certainly wouldnt put him in the same category as Akebono.
     
  6. Sever

    Sever Valued Member

    Choi will inevitably face Bob Sapp
    Choi will also most likely face Giant Silva (or Montany Silva, whatever his name is, the other tall dude from Brazil) in what will be billed as the "tallest pro fight in history." I will turn the TV off
    Choi will face Musashi in Japan, beat the crap out of him for three rounds and lose the decision
    Choi will face one of K-1's few remaining decent fighters and get chewed up and then they'll feed him to every decent fighter they've got just like they did with Sapp.
    I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Choi make the transition to Heroes which is the K-1 financed MMA organisation. With his wrestling skills, he'll probably do OK
     
  7. johndoch

    johndoch upurs

    Choi is certainly not in the same category as Akebono or that other Sumo fighter he faced on the night. The fact is, on that night he faced possibly the easiest route to the final I've seen whereas Koaklai had way harder fights to get to the final, was over a foot smaller in height, was half the bodyweight of Choi and still came out fighting and probably deserved to win the fight. I'll rephrase that deserved to win the fight and if it had been anywhere else but South Korea would have won the fight.

    I think the point of this discussion is K1's persistent attempts to satisfy non fight fans, when people who know better know the standard is out there to provide a show based on fighting skill rather than pure spectacle.
     
  8. Fair point, but we must consider many factors here:

    •Look how popular Choi was
    •This is K-1. When was the last time a K-1 judge got something right?
    •Kaoklai didn't really hurt Choi. All he seemed to do was bounce off him at regular intervals. Does not really constitute winning
    •Yep - he landed more shots and was busier, but he didn't really hurt Choi which, when it comes down to it, is what the K-1 judges are looking for
    •Choi is 7 foot something
    •The sentence in your quote which I have underlined probably sums up the decision. Their freakshow can't look bad.
     
  9. Ikken Hisatsu

    Ikken Hisatsu New Member

    yeah... thats what I meant. they CANT let a little guy like that beat their big new freakshow, the judges decision was decided before the fight even started. just like his fight against musashi. kaoklai might not have hurt choi, but choi didnt hurt kaoklai and really didnt land anything.
     
  10. johndoch

    johndoch upurs

    Whats that got to do with winning a fight???

    Eh??? Probably most of the fights on the night were called right


    Choi didnt hurt Kaoklai either so your comment here doesnt make any real sense

    No. If you dont KO or knock down your opponent then winning a fight is about landing more legal shots than your opponent. In the Choi/Kaoklai fight no one was knocked down (or hurt as you put it)so how do you score it


    And this matters why? Surely its about the skill not the size

    It did
     
  11. Judges decision :)

    Please don't say that k-1 judging is good or even acceptable!

    Well it does, because kaoklai appeared weaker to the judges. He bounced off Choi regularly and hit the deck. We're debating why the judges didn't give it to kaoklai, btw :)

    There is a lot to judging a fight. Judges can be influenced. A simple example would be a fighter producing a flurry at the end of a round, to give a good impression of that round, or raising his hands at the end. It's also about physical condition, and penalties (kaoklai received a yellow card, if I remember rightly)

    How much are freaks loved over there? Choi, Bob Sapp etc.

    We agree :):):)
     
  12. tekkengod

    tekkengod the MAP MP

    I think it would be only fitting that the judges wern't just people from the states athletic division, but other fighters or retired fighters. i'd love to see shamrock replace Doug about now and i think that all fighters should be judges at one point, or at the minimal, people who understand the game a little better.
     
  13. johndoch

    johndoch upurs

    Yes but its a sad day when Judges give a fight to someone based on popularity:(

    On the night how many decisions did you disagree with??? Personally thought the judging was ok (on the night) up until the last fight

    They never gave it to Kaoklai because of home support. And I cant remember choi landing one good clean shot. So whats that all about??? Kaoklai may have been bouncing off Choi but surely Choi has to hit his opponent to win not just lean on the guy

    If a judge is affected by a flurry of punches at the end of the round or raising their hands when they clearly lost the round then they simply shouldnt be judging.

    You are right about the card. Seemed to indicate to the judges which way they should score they fight.

    Come on I like freaks but love the ones that can actually fight :D

    Yes we indeedy do :)
     
  14. nForce

    nForce Banned Banned

    Guys did any small guys win over the big guys?

    Are was it a classic example of size does matter.
     
  15. Ikken Hisatsu

    Ikken Hisatsu New Member

    uh, did you watch the event? Kaoklai beat two guys who were a fair size bigger, and in my opinion, he won the fight with Choi. Look at Kaoklais k-1 record so far- a superior level of skill can beat size.
     
  16. True, but the statement is still factually correct!

    Ah - that's on the night. I'm talking of K-1 as a whole and saying don't be surprised at a bad decision (x10)

    Difficult subject. Judges do get influenced, though. I understand what you're saying but at the end of the day it's not up to us

    Once again, quite true. However, these people ARE judging!

    :D (But learn correct English ;))
     
  17. nForce

    nForce Banned Banned

    no i didnt watch the show thats why i asked :)
     

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