Jumped and mugged last night - Random reflections

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Southpaw535, Nov 4, 2018.

  1. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    Because you suggested a sub par self defence strategy , didn’t like being called on it , then claimed it was actually what Southpaw did then wouldn’t back down.
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  2. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    The only people who could reliably answer that are people who have been in enough fights to know how they would react in a given situation, or, more scarily, those two have been in enough fights to decide how they would act.

    Having only been in a handful of scrapes that turned physical in my adult life, and only 2 or 3 where I felt that taking a beating was a genuine possibility, I couldn't say without being there myself.

    Training can condition you to certain responses, but I really feel that character decides how you act under stress. Given the same training, or no training at all, two people can react in very different ways to the same situation, and character can change with mood.

    You did good, you got the desired result despite the best efforts of others to get the opposite result. You got home instead of ending up in an ambulance or a cell. I think that how to improve on that is a question only you can answer, should you choose to, in future training.
    Southpaw535 and axelb like this.
  3. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Absolute spot on. Winner, winner chicken dinner.
    I am absolutely not commenting on Southy's specific situation or how he dealt with it.

    I am talking (in response to a ridiculous post) about general principles, concepts, tactics, etc. Actual situations are so varied talking specifics can break down pretty quickly.
    I'm also not discounting the validity and usefulness of being a tough SOB, who can take a licking and keep on ticking, and so can outlast lesser attackers.
    What I am discounting is relying on that as a desirable, primary or even secondary tactic in a group attack situation. The ability to endure hardship should be a by-product of good training and a safety net that backs up other elements (awareness, avoidance, escape, pre-emption, loopholing, etc etc).
    In essence I'm not discounting Grond's view (I agree with quite a bit of it) but how poorly it was expressed.

    It's all very well employing the philly shell, turtling and covering and then countering in a boxing ring with padded gloves and known variables.
    Give one person a broken bottle in each hand rather than boxing gloves and that would not play out well at all.
  4. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    ...and if you ever have a SD instructor who tells you to "wear scars with pride", leave and never go back. :D
    axelb, aaradia and Mitch like this.
  5. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Exactly my point. Thank you for pointing it out.

    I don't see him as wrong about anything but when it comes to fist fighting, I think a defensive boxing posture is super important. Getting off a couple good strikes would be a distant second, especially if I just wanted to get out of Dodge.

    But yeah I've got nothing against Thompson at all. Hope that's cleared up.
    axelb, Dead_pool and bassai like this.
  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I'm pretty sure you didn't know what a "Geoff Thompson" was at the start of this thread, but nevernind, you do know it's ok to be wrong occasionally, that's how we learn, I'm definitely more wrong the right the majority of the time, (just ask my SO!)

    But anyway, once punches have started being thrown, just running can be quite dangerous too, people are apes, and there is an inbuilt chase instinct, being able to cover up is super important, but all the stages of fighting are important too, it's the weakest link in the chain that fails first!
  7. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    And then there are people like me. I have knee issues. I can't run fast. Most of the time, I suspect running away, when I can be pursued easily, would not be a valid option for me.
    Grond and Dead_pool like this.
  8. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Originally my knee was bad so I couldn't run, post op, and a few years of physio and I can run, but I've got shockingly bad cardio, self defense wise, I'm more worried about cardiovascular disease then getting into a fist fight at a bar.
    Grond, axelb and icefield like this.
  9. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I don't even do martial arts for self defense. It is just a nice side benefit. The place I am most likely going to need to use it for self defense is dealing with mentally ill violent people in my workplace. Otherwise, I live a pretty low risk life.

    I had my heart checked out several times recently. My heart is good. And I don't do bars at all.

    But , for the sake of the topic, I just mentioned myself as an example. When people talk about self defense and running. Some of us really don't stand a good risk of getting away by merely running away. I won't get away fast. That is just my reality.

    Individual circumstances need to be taken into consideration. That goes for the whole- attack first vs just turtling up/ being defensive vs running away. All can be viable in certain circumstances. All can be a poor choice in other circumstances. It isn't all one or the other. And one strategy might work in the beginning, only to change as the situation develops. IMO - Some posts here seem too rigid and non responsive to individual circumstances. Like one thing is not always the answer.
  10. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Did someone really question Geoff Thompson's credentials with regards to both boxing and self defense :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    As already mentioned he has literally written the book on the latter and several books on the former.

    And as also already mentioned he was mixing judo Greco and boxing before the UFC was heard of.

    Running is a good idea when you can but mostly attackers aren't stupid and tend not to allow you an easy exit and turning your back on someone can be incredibly stupid.

    And as also mentioned you are probably more likely to die of or have health issues related to being over weight than you are of being attacked.
    axelb, Dead_pool and Monkey_Magic like this.
  11. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Of course I knew who Geoff and Ian are, dude. I hang out on this website and they are discussed constantly. I also knew Geoff was a boxer, but remember, most of this latter part of the thread was a big misunderstanding, and not on my part.

    I advocated for a defensive boxing posture, "turtling up", which was mistaken to mean "letting yourself get beat down". And Thompson's fence is basically what I would use in a potential situation, before my turtle shell. And if idiots start throwing punches at me, I'm shoulder rolling until I spot an opening to either flee or fight back. That's my argument in a nutshell.

    If I seem to be comparing Thompson to Mayweather, especially junior, it's for a very good reason. Geoff Thompson for all he is, is NOT the world's most successful defensive boxing champion. So his advice on fighting multiple people, if it's already a fight, is a little lower on the rung than someone who has successfully protected their head from injury from the most dangerous punchers. Everything leading up to the boxing, sure everything Thompson says is pretty solid advice (and remember when I was first challenged on that Smitfire or Icefield or whoever, I said I agreed with 90% of it except for the last bit about "spitting venom" etc.)

    I'm fairly sure if I actually asked Geoff Thompson what boxer's to watch to learn the best self defense fighting skills, his answer would be "Floyd Mayweather Jr.", and not himself.
  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Brah, if you use terminology that noone else understands, then the misunderstanding is partially your fault, especially when it's flagged up several times by other people as not making sense.

    Mayweather is a terrible example for SD, he rarely KO's his opponents, and his clinch only works within the rules.
    aaradia likes this.
  13. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Geoff's answer would probably be lee Murray not Mayweather lol

    And he wouldn't suggest shelling as a answer to the Fence being breached he would and does advocate hitting first and hard if the fence is touched more than once. That's the whole idea behind it.

    I doubt anyone would seriously advocate copying someone whose skills come from as much being a superior athlete with decades of in ring sparring time as an example of what to emulate when you don't have the same gifts or experience in sparring and fighting.

    That's the whole arguement people like Rodney king made years ago with regards to boxing for recreational fighters in MMA and the street and I think it still largely holds true.

    Take a non attribute view of your training and don't emulate those that are pros because what they can do now and at the hight of their careers isn't how they trained or looked at the beginning
    Grond, bassai and Dead_pool like this.
  14. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I'm not much of a runner either but I can beat Usain Bolt over 100 metres...provided I get to lay him out with a right cross, drop a headbutt across his snifter, drive a knee into his unmentionables, punch his solar plexus into his spine or slam a shin into his thigh before we start (even doing any of that he might still beat me to be fair but you get the idea!). :)

    The caveats to "escape" should always be a question of tactics, opportunity and lots of other contextual considerations.
    If I'm attacked with my wife and kids in tow then escape is no longer my primary aim...their escape is.

    And when it comes to escaping you don't have to beat your attackers in a foot race. Just create enough distance, trouble, damage, disorientation, distraction, etc for them not to bother chasing after you (easier said than done of course).
    Just reaching a barrier or car 20 foot away, after a less than perfect pre-empt, can work in your favour. I saw a knife attack video years ago where the victim managed to create distance and reach a barrier next to a pedestrian crossing. They then just kept running around the opposite side when the attacker came round to get them or climbed the barrier. Then mid climb the victim spotted an escape opportunity and ran for the hills. The attacker gave chase but by that time they'd gassed a bit, there was too much distance to make up so they stopped and looked for another victim.

    "Running away" is not just blindly sprinting off at top speed (but I bet that'd work quite a but too!)
    Mitch, aaradia and Dead_pool like this.
  15. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Money's still on Bolt tbf....
    Grond, axelb, Smitfire and 2 others like this.
  16. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    He's pretty fast even after getting hit by a Segway!
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  17. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Probably an accurate appraisal of the situation. :mad::eek:o_O:(
    axelb likes this.
  18. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    I used to practise a solo drill, cross then turn and run :D

    I got pretty good at the run bit. (0-19mph in under 10s), not sure whether the cross would land or not with the air based practice.

    A good deterrent, but if you land the first hit, then you could probably stroll off.

    Still happy I didn't have to use either. Have had a handful of occasions where using the fence and body language/tone was enough to mitigate the scenario.

    Sometimes running isn't always an option; I had to out cycle a car (road rage fun, they skimmed me coming the wrong side of the road and I showed my discontent with a metacarpal integer).
    After circling the car who repeatedly tried to run me over on purpose whilst cars and pedestrians observed, I knew I could not out "run". So I went for alternative routes through thin alleys.

    I have to say I did mock them to goad them out of the car and delay/frustrate, maybe not the most efficient, but I kept this at a distance until they gave up.

    Finding some way of "out running" goes a long way in avoiding the physical exchange.
    Grond likes this.
  19. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Highly Skilled Peeper Supporter

    You know in Avengers Endgame when Thanos snapped his fingers and half of all living beings disappeared? That thing in the photo, it's that. Highly illegal. Even in the United States of America.
    Grond likes this.
  20. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Highly Skilled Peeper Supporter

    "Runnin" - Biggie Smalls; Verse 9-11

    Run from the police picture that, [expletive] I'm too fat
    I [expletive] around and catch a asthma attack
    That's why I bust back, it don't phase me

    I AM NOT CALLING YOU FAT! xD. Your post just reminded me of the lyric in this song from Biggie Smalls. Is it bad that I also quote rappers in essays in school to make a point?
    Grond likes this.

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