Jumped and mugged last night - Random reflections

Does "turtling up" mean something different now?

 

Wow, you really seem to be suggesting that in a real fight, especially against half a dozen people, you're not going to eat a load of hits and it's more important to start throwing fists to try to scare off your assaulters?

You're living in a dream world, Neo.

 

Well since nobody here suggested "letting them hit you" but that's your whole entire argument, yeah apparently you think it means something different.

I get you now. In your head I'm on the ground curled up into a ball. Thanks for pulling the quote of me saying the exact opposite. Your debate style rocks, dude.

 

This is a thread about enduring a beating. A REAL ONE.

Not some theoretical concepts Geoff Thompson advocates.

I have to be blunt with you, there is nothing I find more annoying in the martial arts world than people, even respected instructors, clammoring on about theory in the gym when real life is so unpredictable and doesn't fit into nice little boxes. It's fine to discuss "tactics" and all but real life plays out differently.

This is why there are so many fraudulent and bad SD teachers out there. They all have tactics to sell you on, but your mileage will always vary.

 

"See Southpaw? You just needed to watch more Ian Abernathy and Geoff Thompson videos and you'd have defended yourself better"

Do you see what I mean? I hear this type of thing all the time, especially online.

I don't mean to go off color or offend Southpaw, either. I find it hilarious that my one post supporting what he actually did (endure a fight using his training ), turned into a tennis match.

 

That's literally what turtling up means. That's literally what you said was an option. Along with "wearing scars" with pride and all that jazz.
You accuse me of not reading what you've written.
I don't think you're reading what you've written!

 

Evidently not.

 

So as Im not just the only person confused here

Can I just check with grond, that by turtling up, you don't mean curling up into a ball/turtling like BJJ/Judo and MMA people do. But something different?

If you do mean something different, can you clarify what you mean?

 

Turtling up is a metaphor. It means a lot of things depending on the context.

Southpaw turtled up. And came to post about his scars here. And I'm quite proud of him.

If you could go back and lecture him before the fight, what would you have told him differently? Lash out at your foes and hope they run away? Watch more Geoff Thompson vids?

I guess you didn't get the Ali quote I posted either. Damn me and my bad debate style!

 

In a fighting/martial arts context it means curling up in a ball on the floor, covering your face and getting hit and stomped until the other person stops hitting you or yoiu succumb.

Turtling up in MMA means you lose because it shows you have stopped fighting back or intelligently defending yourself and the person has free rein (reign?) to rain down blows.

In a BJJ/Judo context it means being almost entirely passive while someone tries to submit you and you try to wait out the time limits or ref stand up.

 

Easy. I am talking about what Southpaw did.

This wasnt a BJJ/MMA thread so I didn't think I had to spell this out...no not that at all.

Has no one here played StarCraft or Street Fighter? This is a concept so basic to fighting that it's part of practically every competitive game ever made.

Turtling will help you in a real fight, and it's the most legally acceptable option too.

Turtling (gameplay) - Wikipedia

 

Priceless.

 

Sorry, no. You are not the dictionary, so you don't get to cherry pick your own definition.

Go read the article on turtling I just posted and you should see your mistake is one of broad generalization. Bring your reading glasses

 

I'll go one further. If you don't think Royce Gracie won the first UFCs by turtling, then you have a really narrow idea of what that term actually stands for.

 

So priceless, it's taught by boxing coaches everywhere.

Floyd Mayweather's whole style is based on turtling up.

Why do you think they call it the "Philly Shell".

 

Turtle shell, Side On. Philly Shell.

If you guys want more I've got some great Winky Wright and Joshua Clotty videos to illustrate the point. Everyone knows Mayweather, but maybe not the fact that the turtle shell metaphor is heavily used in boxing.

If somebody starts arguing boxing doesn't work in the street or something silly, we might be here a while...

 

Brilliant, thank you, that makes everything a lot clearer!

 

I find the best form of defence against attackers is to curl into a ball and unleash my electrical charge or start laying out some hadoukens.

 

on the 4 occasions I was attacked by a gang of people, I used the turtle position 2 times.
first time I didn't to anything, was badly injured. (4 people on me at one time)
second 2 times, hit back a bit, was enough to make a gap to get out - having past experience helped me not freeze up like the first time. (I don't recall the numbers, I was surrounded, there were at least 10 people involved in total, 2nd time was 13, I recall this as I was making a list - which proved to be fruitless).
last time, turtled up which was partly tactical as I was strapped to a snakeboard, hit back hard at every opening, shielded incoming strikes, got enough space to get out, one chase me and grabbed me, I ripped his fingers back when he grabbed me, got round the corner and off the board, came back with the board as a weapon and they had run off. ( I had 4 to start, got them down to 2 before making my escape)

After the last time I started reading up, and looking for striking based martial art. Hindsight is great, the literature may have helped me quantify what happened, but that adrenaline dump isn't something that is easily replicated, except in some martial arts contexts (full contact competition, simulation) generally anything where you think/and probably are really going to get hurt.

it's anecdotal, but in my case and all my friends cases, hitting back did help. Hitting first did help, and this lines up with the literature that is available.

It's hard to tell if @Grond you mean to intentionally limit the amount to attacks you make, which might aggravate to escalate, I think this is a risk, but one worth taking, it has always paid off in my experience and all my friends experience.
I certainly agree that we should all be thankful that SouthPaw made it out without any debilitating injuries, the training definitely helps with the ability to take the beating when we aren't able to attack.

For a long time I used to have bad dreams about the same situations where I was frozen and unable to attack. I don't know of any teachers teaches that advocate not hitting back, except my judo teacher, who seemed to be cautious about his clubs reputation after some of his students hurt someone else in a fight (punching and kicking??) but that stuck with me as an odd attitude.
The karate class I went to (wado ryu) and my Dad's karate organisation (shotokan) both advocated hitting hard and first especially if there were many others.

Edit: just saw the note on turtling up in gaming context - I hadn't heard of this before, so that's a good clarification, rather than the turtle position common to styles I've practiced.

Edit: should probably note that I had a handful of one on one fights, but now I sound like some sort of ruffian.

 

Ah. For that, see George Dillman's videos.