I practice Jujitsu , but I heard that somehow they are rather similar to one and other , so how similar are they ? They both seem to incorporate quite a number of Grappling technique ......
Well, it could be said that a fair amount of what the x-kans do *is* a form of Jujutsu - particularly the Takagi Yoshin Ryu stuff.
But bear in mind that there is a world of difference between Koryu Jujutsu, Gendai Jujutsu, Sengoku Jidai Jujutsu, Edo Jidai Jujutsu, westernised Jujutsu etc etc.. "Jujutsu" is a very broad term that can mean vastly different martial arts, depending upon who you ask. So when you say, "is Jujutsu similar to Ninjutsu", the answer might be yes and it might be no, depending upon what type of Jujutsu you are talking about and in fact, what "type" of Ninjutsu you are referring to.
And yet people find this surprising. Most of the old schools would have an element of grappling as well as other types of crossover skills.
Yeah, grappling would probably be a lot more effective against a guy in armour than attempting to strike them, or attempting to use certain weapons. And good point on the various categories of JJ, Andy.
When you look at the 2004 Daikomiyosai DVD, you see how hard it is to get up with armour. So a grapple with someone in armour will help in that situation.
this is a very naive question, but isn't jujitsu a subset discpline within taijutsu? That is a certain catagory of unarmed techniques under the umbrella of taijutsu?
I used to do westernised jujitsu. I can say, from my observation and comparison to date, there are some techniques which pop up as foundation skills in both JJ and bujinkan budo taijutsu / hoshinroshiryu jutaijutsu. However, the manner of executing them is like comparing chalk and cheese. Jujitsu, as i studied it, was external, hard. Muscles, grunt and slug. The same techniques, learned in the bujinkan, stress body movement, kamae and flow to effect them, rather than muscle and momentum. Soon as I saw the jutaijutsu movement, i threw away my 1st kyu in JJ and moved schools. It's so much less effort! Hope that helps. Jen.
Hi Paragon Where did you originally study JJ (what ryu?). I can agree there are hard aspects to it but the flow is there as well. Why would you think using 'momentum' is more effort? Glad you found something you enjoy though. I current do JJ and am loving combining the hard and soft aspects, the ease with which we can flow from one move, counter, etc. to another and how we are taught to be aware of as many possibilities and variations and to practice and test them out against resistance. I have to say the emphasis on great fitness is something I welcome at our dojo. You don't survive otherwise.
You probably did not learn Japanese Jujutsu. Jutaijutsu is just another name for Jujutsu. Jujutsu and Ninpo Taijutsu are somewhat similar. You will see some of the same throws, but ninpo taijutsu's unique techniques and teachings (ryugi) are different. Ninpo taijutsu core techniques and teachings are based on escaping, as in not getting captured. This is evident by the taihenjutsu and kamae in ninpo taijutsu.
No, it is not a subset. Jujutsu is a generic term that is used for almost all grappling (unarmed and armed) techniques from Japan. For example these are the names that fall under "Jujutsu": jujutsu taijutsu kogusoku hakuda koppo yawara torite hade kempo yoroi kumiuchi katchu yawara ect. sources: http://www.furyu.com/wayne/Seifukan/tryu/tryu03.html and http://www.koryu.com/library/mskoss8.html
Hi, Lily. Nope, not the real McCoy-san, lol, it was WJJF derived. My old sensei sincereley wanted to get back to "real" japanese budo. Unfortunateley, he didn't get the right ingredients together and wasn't quite on the right track, sadly. It was fun and useful at the time, but, err, lacked sophistication. (Hmm, should have read "brute force and ignorance" rather than "momentum", perhaps. ) Hi, George, much different mindset between the 2 I found already, just made 5th kyu bujinkan. JJ techniques I knew expected both parties to "play fair" for starters. (roflmao!) Since Glenn Morris was my intro to taijutsu and i train with Kokoro, (and Immolation!)well, let's say I've taken to "japanese dirty fighting" with relish. Just call me Jen. "Paragon42" is kind of an aspiration, lol. Cheers, Jen. (And, yes, Immolation is less spohisticated than a ferret in any trousers in person!)
Ok, maybe you're basing that on the westernized jujutsu school that you learn, which really has no connection to Japan. But, I can assure you that jutaijutsu and jujutsu are the same. For example Takagi Yoshin-ryu. You may recognize this school as being one of the schools that Hatsumi Sensei teaches as part of his Bujinkan organization. The name of his branch is Hontai Takagi Yoshin-ryu jutaijutsu and belongs to the Mizuta branch. There was another person that received this branch from Takamatsu Sensei and his name is Ueno Takashi. The name of the school that he received is Hontai Takagi Yoshin-ryu jujutsu. So, are you going to question Takamatsu Sensei and tell him that he made a mistake when he wrote the scrolls?
Oh, yes, agree, George, when you're talking about REAL JJ. What I used to do wasn't authentic Japanese JJ, (Plenty of WJJF video clips about if you want to see what it was like.) what i did (past tense) had a westernised, sports mindset and different way of moving entireley from the JJ, jutaijutsu and taijutsu I've now seen in the Bujinkan. I was comparing to "JJ" as taught by WJJF and offshoots. (sorry if that wasn't clear, I thought I explained that bit to Lily above the answer to you.) Which is why I quit and joined the Bujinkan as I said to learn the real stuff. It's take over a year to get rid of most the wrong way of moving from my muscle memory, been very frustrating. Worth it though. Jen. :Angel:
But is the taijutsu in question truly Japanese jujutsu, or a Chinese-influenced hybrid system? I can't imagine any other Japanese art besides karate which uses anything remotely resembling, say, hicho no kamae, or ichi no kamae. (Judo, most other jujutsu I've heard of, and even kendo/iaido are all much more 'forward-facing' and based on shizentai.)
Ok, let's look at it this way. What schools are ninpo taijutsu based on? Gyokko-ryu and Koto-ryu from what I have been told. Even though they are based on striking, they still have throws and grappling, which are consistent with other Japanese grappling arts. These ryuha were influenced by Tode (Tang hand - as in Tang dynasty - same kanji as the original kanji karate but pronounced different), but definately Japanese based grappling. Kosshijutsu and Koppojutsu are not the only arts that use strikes (ie. goho, hakuda, and kenpo) and not the only schools that use an ichimonji type posture (ie. Enshin-ryu).
Koto ryu is pretty interesting. I saw a video on Koto ryu the other day and it is a bit different from Bujinkan's Koto ryu. Here it it is --> [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX1Kofu6CLk"]Kaminaga Shigemi - Kotoryu Koppo Jutsu - YouTube[/ame]
