Discussion in 'Judo' started by God, Feb 9, 2004.
who here has ever used judo for self-defense?
Not too long ago a couple of thugs tried to carjack a van full of tourists at Disney World. Well the 6 occupants of the van were high ranking judo instructors. You almost felt bad for the three would be car jackers after the beating they were dealt.
One memory that springs to mind was when I was in a pub and some guy tried to choke me out from behind and got a varation seoi nage.
A very memorable episode of the Andy Griffith Show had Deputy Barney Fife sign up for judo lessons so that he could defend himsilf against the town bully. Andy, in his wisdom, realized that Barney did not fully understand how to apply the judo so he hired the Japanese instructor to wear Barney's suit and hat to fool the bully. Of course the bully thought the instructor was Barney and then was sumarily beaten. Later, the bully was afraid of Barney who never learned that the instructor had fought him in the alley.
Anyway, long and borring story , I know, but just goes to show you that Judo works for self defense even on the Andy Griffith Show.
I used judo two saturdays ago. It was against a group of attackers and one tried to dip from behind so I used ogoshi. But I didn't continue with it. Of course any time that you apply the principles of balance and breaking balance (kuzushi), foot sweeps, throws, even jointlocks, you are using judo.
i can't figure out how to use quick reply.
anyway, multiple attackers? what you both said about your personal experiences seem almost a little too textbook. do you remember the details? why were you confronted by multiple attackers, etc.?
me I apply the more traditional Judo self-defence technique of not getting in fights.
I have seen a colleague a lovely variation of a taio toshi to throw an attacker coming at him with a haymakr punch, he even (like any good compeditor) followed up immediately but leaping on the attacker, hooking his legs in (attacker on all fours), at which point my pal realised he no longer looked "cool" and got back up and told the attacker to get out of there.
Fun to watch.
On a serious note, Judoka need to me incredibly careful in applying their techniques. The general population (including muggers), are very likely to end up seriously if not fatally injured if thrown.
Judo throws when applied on non-judoka are really dabgerous, much more so that punches or kicks. This is because the impact caused by a throw is much more than any kick or punch.
Given uneven ground or worse an edge (say a curb/pavement), a throw ending up with the back of the head being cracked on this edge would run a high risk of seriously injuring non-judoka and Judoka!
Hi Virtuous got any article i can read about the carjacking episode?
In Karate we work on some throws and take downs, sweeps etc.. for self defense. I am always reminded by my sensei though not to hold on to my uki once I have thrown him (there are exceptions when holding is advisable). My instinct is to hold because my first ma training was judo (green belt). In selfdefense techniques the goal is not sports oriented, but rather to inflict as much damage as posible (again there are exceptions). Holding on to your uki after throwing him with o soto gari for instance results in the splitting of the tori's chi. So the o soto gari variation is to let go once the uki is air born so that you maintain your own center for the next technique.
Actually o-soto-gari is one throw were u can get the most power by holding on to u'r oponent as u throw him and u drive him into the groundwith the hand u are holding him with. if u just let go there would not be much power in u'r o-soto gari. Other throws like ippon seonage you'll be better of letting go if u are not going to makicomi. but o-soto u definately want to drive him through the ground if u want to cause serious damage.
Okay, my memory was a bit off. They were a group of instructors from Florida in California and there was one car jacker. I found this in the 'Judo Alberta News'
I must beg to differ on this point. There are variations on o-soto-gari which will still hurly the opponent into the floor without having to follow him down. for example, if the opponent punches and you use their momentum to drag them on further before sweeping their leg out you can get anough force in the throw to lift the second leg clean off the floor without actually hitting it. After this, driving the opponent downwards will cause more than enough of an impact to put them out of the fight.
Although rarely taught, the Kodokan judo kata have some useful self defence applications. In Kano's book there are various judo-based counters shown for both unarmed and armed attacks in the 7 kata. Interesting to see some of the counters not only include the more commonly associated throws/locks/chokes but also karate-based punching and kicking techniques.
IMO if judoka were to practise these kata more regularly as part of their training then they would certainly improve their already effective self defence skills.
I was reading a real old, Judo book i found in the city library the other day, and there was things like defence from attack with an axe.
Amused me for a while
Personally tho if someone comes at me with an axe i am pretty sure i am not gonna try to throw them, more likely i would do the quickest mile ever straight to the laundrette to wash my pants.
Thanks for bringing up the story, Virtuous. Sensei was laughing for weeks about that one back when it happened.
As for defense, I have found a quick choke to be really effective at times (especially if preceeded by a quick kick in the back of the knee to get kuzuzhi.) Especially when multiple attackers are involved. We actually do a multiple attacker drill in class from time to time. One of Sensei's usual strategies is to get one guy in a choke and use him as a shield. Then, once he's starting to get in your way, drop the guy, preferably into another attacker, and then either head for the hills with the hole you've just made, or move on to the next attacker.
Just thought that would be informative.
U beg to differ but then u agree with me " driving the opponent downwards will cause more than enough of an impact to put them out of the fight." which is it?
and who said anything about following the oponent to the ground? im simply stating a commonly known fact that if u throw an oponent with o-soto and u drive u'r hand down hard as he is falling then it will add more momentum to the throw.
Sorry, misread that as following to the ground.
no sweat, osoto is one of my favorite throws not only for competion for for its self defence applications as well. u don't need a gi to throw someone with osoto.
This thread reminds me of a tale told to me by a red & white belt back home who was attacked by a transvestite hooker.
She/he ended up on the deck thrown for ippon. he/she was then just plain arm locked with one hand whilst police were called on a mobile phone with the other hand.
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