The striking methods are heavily influenced by the history Generally speaking we either strike from A) a natural stance (i.e. Standing normally or walking up to or past the opponent) - think of sucker punches/strikes B) a guarded position with the front arm relatively extended so it can be used to grab or strike an opponents guard &/or defend if they close to grappling range. The rear hand position changes according to the circumstances. Often it is by the neck or chin (in the old days this hand position was useful when you consider the risk associated with projectiles) and this translates pretty well into a modern context. Sometimes it's by the elbow which is useful (in a historical context) if you have a small weapon in that hand We spend a lot of time learning how to deliver strikes in a grappling context too
The striking methods are listed here http://www.akban.org/wiki/Hoken_Juroppo,_sixteen_striking_treasures_-_Ninjutsu
Hi If you have observations about my videos then here would be good as I'm suggesting that they may be a reasonable proxy for how most buj dojos train If you do get time to comment then thanks loads
The video "ninjutsu fist" looks to have the same basic mechanics as a right cross. So why the controversy over the Bujinkan not punching correctly? Just trying to understand. Thanks.
In short I believe the whole issue stems from our basic tsuki. This is a technique where you step forward and strike with the forearm extended and put all your weight on the front foot, a bit like the oistuki in karate yet your upper body is in profile. It is hard to explain in words, but this technique teaches an incredible amount of things about body structure, movement, where to put your weight etc. It is used as the basic attack in the kihon happo, the basic movements you learn before you learn kata from the ryuha, and in a number of kata as well. A lot of "outsiders" to this art view this tsuki as crap for a number of reasons, and in a sense they are not to blame, many examples of it on youtube are utter crap. If you view and learn this without the proper teaching or kuden, you will misunderstand and do things wrong, and it becomes a lunge punch with which you put yourself in an awkward position. In many BJK dojo, the tori then remains in this position to let his/her uke or teacher perform any technique they want. This is of course not how it works, and with the proper tori/uke training principle the uke will put in the amount of energy and give the amount of resistance to teach the uke. Remember, in a classical set-up the teacher usually has the tori role! If I would not react properly to a tsuki (block correctly, have a good kamae, counterattack in a sufficient manner), most of my counterparts at my dojo would run right through me and have my ass for dinner. And that's how it supposed to be. And I would do the same to them, to teach them! Unfortunately, there are a lot of BJK dojos out there where most people could not hit a dent in a stick of butter (Dutch manner of speech, forgive me), and when you act like a proper tori they will be insulted and think you are violent. Alas, such is the way of the world right now but I believe this will change in the future. Kind regards, Tom
So honest question. Why not isolate it out as a basic movement drill similar to the Yoshinkan's kihon dosa and then train the techniques against HAOV style strikes, or boxing, or both? That would seem to allow for still teaching those things and building base competency faster, no?
Great explanation Tom, thanks. My opinion is, in a lot of traditional martial arts it takes some real digging to find the good stuff. From an outsider looking in, the Bujinkan seems like it would be attractive to the thinking man who enjoys history, research and exploration. There seems to be more mystery around this art than any other I have come across. It actually sounds pretty enjoyable.
I love this quote, and it is quite correct. I have been accused of being quite violent, and was told at one point that I shouldn't be a teacher, and that I should be reported to my teacher. Well, I forwarded that information on to my teacher the next day and was told by him that I obviously didn't hit hard enough. Speaking of Dutch, I come from the Sveneric Bogsatter line. Sveneric once hit me hard enough to the underside of the jaw with a 4" punch to lift my feet almost 14" off the floor; note that I'm 6' / 280+ lbs. He was impressed that I not only retained consciousness but asked to be shown it again. I did see an impressive light show and heard little birdies singing for awhile, though.
Thanks for the question. Actually we do. The kata build up, many kata have different levels to the same kata, and henka (true henka, so variations shown in the densho not made-up henka) showing how to react when tori attacks differently. So we practice tsuki alone, and then in kata situation, but we also practice the same kata from a grappling position with an uppercut, for a jab, etc. But the tsuki variation usually comes first. Why? because that is how my teacher was taught by his, by his, etc. It's a traditional art. I sometimes question my teacher or his teacher on certain things, like why do we do this or is it effective or what if I do this. The Adalia bipunctatas always have a very concise answer which usually ends up with me being in pain. My knowledge is limited, but the thing you have to remember with traditional Japanese arts is that progress might seem quite slow at first, you practice the same thing over and over again, or you learn a few new techniques only to find out that they still boil down to the same thing. But after a while, a number of years, you start to integrate a style of moving and a style of reacting with your body and mind. Let's call that last bit strategy, or heiho. These are very subtle things. And then, you realise that you are developing, your body structure is getting stronger, you are able to do things you were not able to do before, etc. This road is longer than with many other styles or arts, especially modern ones or sport ones. We can debate which is best, but that does not matter, to each his own. Like many martial arts, we do not only practice to fight, but we endeavor to learn how to fight. Regards, Tom
If you find the right teacher, you can learn a lot about the history of these arts. Mystery is there and it isn't, this is probably the case with every traditional art, be it Japanese, Chinese, Indonesian... There are a lot of stories, oral history, etc. which I find very interesting, many teachers are very wise and have a lot of life experience, and then on the other hand they are just regular guys who you can roll with on the mat or have a drink with. The important thing is to find a teacher with a good link to the source, in any art. If you are interested in (oral) history surrounding the Takamatsuden arts, Hatsumi sensei's book Essens of Ninjutsu is great, and the history part is very well covered in Kacem Zoughari's book. Kind regards, Tom
Just a friendly reminder to all that swearing (masked or otherwise) is not permitted on MAP. Thank you for your cooperation with this policy.
Haha good story. I can relate. I am not a violent guy, but when you step into the dojo, you are entering a martial space. Your mindset needs to be that way, it's not yoga. Keeping everyone's level in mind, you should push your uke/tori/student/teacher to do their best. If I see an opening in the kamae of my peers (or my betters) I will act on that and try to get them. With varying success regards, Tom
I do like the Latin solution, my apologies, I am sometimes a bit profane and do not recognise some words as swearing which others might.
Definitely a bad reason if you're going for effectiveness then but if your yardstick is passing on an approximate copy then that's what you're doing, so fair enough. Wrestling and boxing are very traditional yet adapt. I think "traditional" needs to be renamed as the "martial Amish" since . It would clear up a lof of confusion "I believe that we were intended to fight exactly as we fought in the 1600's in a geographically specific area." You guys already wear black. You just need the beards
The reason I started this thread was to try to differentiate between the random black pyjama wearing idiot showing off their limp technique on youtube and the average buj dojo Within the buj there is a spectrum of people who train more traditionally, by which I mean they focus on perfecting the kata and being a carbon copy of their teacher they will spend a lot of time integrating traditional weapons into their movement, and those to train in less traditional methods I'm probably somewhere in between the two ends of the spectrum
Good post. In relation to what has been said here before, some observations: The people I train with will probably fall into the more "traditional" end of the spectrum. What I think is that different people want different things from MA and maybe also need different things - due to how their body and mind functions. Traditional Japanese arts with a proper martial spirit (and not all of them have that IMO) appeal to me. For me, for how my psyche works, I get a lot of benefit from weapons training with a partner - if you do it right, you really have to be on edge and the vibe/intent comes close to that of a real fight. It makes me a better person and I actually believe it prepares me for stressful situations (not limited to combat but all kinds of conflict). I can at least count 3 times in my life that my MA practice has kept me from ending up in hospital with very bad injuries which were not fighting situations. I think many MA practitioners can relate to that, but not every MA is for everyone (and this is not meant in an elitist way). Point is, I believe that if you train takamatsuden arts right with the right teacher, they are amazing, but not necessarily for everyone's taste. If you train them without the proper supervision and transmission, you will end up either with BJK techniques preformed with principles from another MA like karate or judo ('cause that's what you or your teacher trained before) or with bovine manure (Frodocious! :hat. And I believe that goes for a lot of arts. Regards, Tom
This reminded me of a video featuring three schools in my city - of these three there is only one that I would even remotely consider exchanging ideas with....see if you can guess which one [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSx6NbiisJU"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSx6NbiisJU[/ame]
