JKD - True JKD is - "Like White On Rice!"

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by JeetKuneDero, Jul 8, 2008.

  1. chof

    chof Valued Member

    for one thing, i was not referring to you, jk dero, but now i am, you, i will not waist my time with, i can tell that you are unskilled in martial arts and proficient in english, lol
     
  2. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    I honestly can't figure out what you are on about.
     
  3. DaeHanL

    DaeHanL FortuneCracker

    neither can I yohan. i'm officially aborting this topic now.
     
  4. chof

    chof Valued Member

    he had a good point at the begining of the thread, but kind of made an ass of himself talking in circles, now water is not empty and as far as any mental muscular skill, autonomy applies, any martial artist knows that, true the mind should be empty, but water isnt, lee talks about water in movement terms, crashing and flowing as yohan said principles of yielding, opions are great but dont beat around the bush with intellectual bull!
     
  5. JeetKuneDero

    JeetKuneDero Valued Member

    I guess I'm fortunate it's not your ball to take home. Stop playing if you must, and go home. For, though it was not my intent - rather, my disappointment it was once more so easy - I know I bested all of you on this.

    As for my English, that's just another sign of a superior intelect developed. Something all of you here are capable of, given it's due. What, is a martial artist supposed to be unable to spell such a simple word as "waste."

    I know that was probably just a typo, more a result of the emotion you may have been caught up in. Nevertheless, that right there shows a lack of understanding of the water principle where it counts, however - in your very bones. You may have flowed, but it was undirected, unsteady, thus your typo. What is so hard to grasp - the water or the principle!

    Fine, go home. But at least try to use this thing as a springboard to exploring where you may be lacking in the principle's mastery! It may cost you terribly one day. Something I would not wish on any of you! Lee and those before him expresed the water principle in all areas, what is wrong with that, with totality?

    I signed my last piece ABD. As in Attack By Drawing. On a JKD forum. Yet, you ended up falling prey to my ABD once more. Yet you would attempt to define an art and or it's principles you can't even see coming at you in the slowness of someone's "long winded" expression!

    If it were me, sure, I might not care for the tone I may have perceived coming from someone, but I'd still attempt to learn from it.

    Once, while working on my Right Lead and Bustillo corrected me in a manner I strongly took offense to, I refused to allow my feelings to dictate which direction my response to his manner would flow, and I was better off for it.

    Sometime, ago, I visited an old TKD instructor. Same thing. We sat there and laughed about the time he grabbed me by my neck for performing a form at less than the level I was already at dictated I should be able to. I recalled how I wanted to just punch his lights out. Instead, I tried to learn from it.

    I know, I know.. long winded, or whatever. Nevertheless, no offense intended - just a challenge - peace.
     
  6. DaeHanL

    DaeHanL FortuneCracker

    there's nothing wrong with desiring totality. Applying principles to every aspect of your life. However, I pick my battles. Arguing on a forum isn't fun or worth the effort.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2008
  7. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Apparently, that's also the problem with internet postings.

    What I said was that people have come closer to the overall concept by 1) couching it in their own straightforward terms than they have by 2) discussing the metaphor ad nauseum.

    In other words, I agree with you. Metaphors are inherently flawed.
     
  8. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Wow. This thread has turned into a great illustration of the pitfalls of JKD. It's become an over-intellectualized parade of people trying to convince one another that they're more well-read, more "actualized", more refined, more experienced...

    MadMonk108 is blunt. And I thought the reference to coming back when you'd read Krishnamurti was pretentious. But many of us have seen him in action. Footage of him putting his ideas into action is easy enough to find. Not so for most of us. That matters.

    As far as people being obliged to enlighten other people with their deeper understanding of "be like water", I ask "why does there need to be a deeper understanding?" At its deepest, it's really not that deep a concept.

    Besides all that, I don't believe you need a thorough grounding in the analogy to get the idea. You see MMA fighters flow seamlessly from boxing to wrestling to muay thai all the time, depending on the edicts of the situation in front of them. And given the choice between that sort of internalized, operationalized understanding of "be like water" and the bookish, argumentative theoretical understanding that comes from over-reliance on metaphor, I'd happily take the former.


    Stuart
     
  9. JeetKuneDero

    JeetKuneDero Valued Member

    In the spirit, of your namesake's willingness to acknowledge the better man (Dae Han in "Best of the Best"), you're right, "Arguing on a forum isn't fun or worth the effort." Peace.
     
  10. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Arguing no.

    Structured debate sure.
     
  11. chof

    chof Valued Member

    the subconcious mind picks up on every little bit of information the brain processes, lee, as i said before never defined, his aphorism, water or be water, be formless? or maybe he did it for a reason to have the artist dig deep with in themselves to pursue the ultimate connection to themselves, but i myself think it had many meanings all connected to an art, which is jkd, coming from a wing chun backround and jkd this makes sense to me, take it for what its worth
     
  12. DaeHanL

    DaeHanL FortuneCracker

    exactly. I love hearing/reading other peoples take on things.

    I don't however enjoy people confusing their opinions with fact. which is why i was going to abort the topic.

    JKDero,
    Although I'm not named after the movie, I did love his character. When i was a boy the end of that movie always touched me.
     
  13. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Lee didn't come up with the analogy. It was old when he was young.
     
  14. DaeHanL

    DaeHanL FortuneCracker

    I know that to be true of many of "his" quotes. Lee did give it charisma though!
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2008
  15. chof

    chof Valued Member

    one thing is for sure any novice or martial artist looking to expand should find something worth while in this thread without looking to deep
     
  16. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    No argument there, mate. :)
     
  17. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    Congratulations. Winning an internet argument is like winning the special olympics.

    A sign of intelligence and eloquence, is the ability to reduce a complicated concept into simple words. Rather, the ability to help people with simple minds understand complex concepts. I have a simple mind and have gained no new insights from your explanations so far. I'm not insulting you, just giving an honest evaluation of your writing so far.

    I don't understand what you are saying.
     
  18. JeetKuneDero

    JeetKuneDero Valued Member

    That was not what I was referring to as having bested anyone in. While on these two matters, if anything was a sign of a lack of inteligence applied it was that "bested" statement I originally made to begin with. I am not so foolih as to be unaware of the value of humility.

    As for the ability to help a simple minds to understand a complex concept, that is not always based on ability on one's own inteligence. Trying helping an outright racist understand the error of his thought. Try helping rainforest people to understand that the lack of rain is not the fault of something they did wrong in their (rain) dance. Simple minds, let alone products of a broken educational system, which emphasizes what to think at the expense of how to think a thing through, are not always so easily, if ever, to lead to "understanding."
     
  19. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    I have no idea what you are talking bout - literally. What are you talking about?

    What? Are you saying you disagree with my statement? Explain.

    Ok - so it's harder to teach some people than it is to teach others . . . how does this tie into whatever point you were trying to make?

    What is your point? I'm having a hard time understanding what you are trying to say.
     
  20. WindyPhilosoph

    WindyPhilosoph WHOOSH!!! ...that is all.

    Jeet Kun Do in a nutshell.
    Fight, let adrenaline take over, but give the instinct form and shape. Instead of being a crashing river splashing water everywhere, be a hydraulic pipe, focusing, but still blasting water.
     

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