jkd in k1

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by JKD_forever, Apr 17, 2005.

  1. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    mma is a sport.does not mean that they don't cross over,but sure people in the ufc would not use same tatics for a street fight then they do in ring
     
  2. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    because jkd crosses over that why,jkd can be mma or it can be street fighting
     
  3. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    tel
    Hilarious :eek: :D :eek: - and you've done the research and polls on this. You've been to the gyms and the camps and interviewed them and post the relevant data. :confused: :confused: :confused:

    Your talking complete bollocks here.

    So Nogueira aka Minotauro lands a right cross in the ring when his opponent drop his guard... but he wouldn't do that on the street??! :confused:

    Sakuraba does the insane Mongolian face stomp in the ring when he's downed his opponent but he wouldn't do that to someone trying to hurt him in the street?! :confused:

    Wanderlai Silva is takin' fools out left and right with MT knees in the ring - but he'd forget all that in a street fight the second they ended up in a clinch??! :confused:

    Genki Sudo sticks to opponents like a used piece of chewing gum on your the sole of your shoe on a hot summer day. He then proceeds to submit them like a redheaded step child gets punked down by his stepdad. But in the street when the figh goes to the ground he will suddenly turn off this response and now fight completely differently?!

    Bob Sapp starts to cry like a baby when he's on the downhill side of losing...
    err.. wait.. he may do this in the street too!! :D

    Get real. :bang:

    They train day in day out with these techniques... they are committed to and heavily ingrained in muscle memory... yet magically in the street they will all of a sudden forget this because it's for sport/the ring?!?!

    LOL! :D
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2005
  4. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    Please tell me you are joking! :confused:

    Fighting in the street is a whole different ballgame, its a whole different bloody sport (pardon the pun).

    Just because they can fight in a rule environment, doesnt mean the will win in the street, if they even choose to fight.

    I'll tell you why. If a mugger is going to try and steal Bob Sapp's walet, he aint gonna go up and challange him face to face. He will smack him over the back of the head with a 2 by 4 and kick him until he's knocked out, then take his money.

    Rules make alot of difference.
     
  5. Ikken Hisatsu

    Ikken Hisatsu New Member

    I still dont see how it would make any difference whether it was some average joe, bob sapp, or a karate expert. generally getting smacked over the back of the head with a 2x4 is a fight ender. sure it would be different from the ring, but so what? you would still get knocked out unless you are Mark Hunt.
     
  6. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    Exactly! Ikken.
     
  7. Richdog

    Richdog Limecat is watching...


    Arrghhh the whole point is tactics! Why is this not blindingly obvious to people?!?!?!!?! Yes, a punch is a punch and a kick is a kick whether you're in the street or the ring, but the way you approach a fight and the tactics you use to finish them are different! In a real fight there's a lot more pressure and fear factor than in a ring with a controlled environment, you would do things to finish a fight that you wouldn't do in a ring due to the unpredictability and danger of a street fight. OF COURSE ITS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT! :bang:

    :D
     
  8. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    I'm not so sure about that one. I think it's a variable - again you seem to be looking for blanket rules to this kind of a thing.

    For someone that is used to dealing with the bio-physical responses brought on by adrenalin surges associated with fear (narrowing of vision, loss of hearing etc.) they would be more likely to stand a realisitic chance of coming out on top in a street fight. The natural repsonses to that fear have been conditioned by fighting.

    This is commonly known as 'adrenaline-stress response'

    Many 'ring' fighters having gone up against opponents have worked out a way to deal with their adrenaline-stress response... this has given them a real ideas what works. And if you think a big right cross that works in the boxing/MT/MMA ring is somehow rendered ineffective in a street fight - your living in fantasy land. It's still just as relevant as it's always been.

    A great example of this is police officers. They train to deal with this kind of stuff - violent attacks, unexpected attacks etc. They are on the job so they deal with this kind of confrontation more than just about anyone else out there. This conditioning has enabled them deal with their own adrenalin stress response better than those who are not constantly putting themselve in this position.

    Most ring fighters could easily fit into this category- there are a few reality based defense programs are based on this. There are many self defense MA's that can teach you how to get clean KO'd.
     
  9. Richdog

    Richdog Limecat is watching...

    That is exactly what I said in my post, have another look if you like.

    But if you think an MMA fighter uses the same rules/tactics in an MMA fight as he does in a dangerous, possible life-threatening streetfight then it's you who's living in a dreamland...

    Yes, full-contact ring fights get you used to getting hit and learning how to deal out damage very effectively, but it is one thing fighting someone in a ring where you can predict what tactics he's going to use, and be safe in the knowledge that he's not going to try and permanently damage you, and quite another thing fighting someone who for all you know may be an ex-con, psycho etc who will think nothing of stamping on your head repeatedly, or worse.

    They are two different environments, and come with two different sets of emotions...

    :)
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2005
  10. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    SliptheJab. Are you trying to say that the Best fighters in the world may be good street fighters? Thats a no brainer, im sure they can hold their own in a pub brawl. But thats 0.05% of sport fighters, if that.
     
  11. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Richdog
    Think about what your saying here. Someone who trains day in day out at keeping the distance, closing the gap and working to take out the opponent is supposedly going to forget all of that when in a scrap in the street? Wrong. The fact that they're using these skills in sports like MMA where there is an adrenaline-stress response (the same as in the street, pub, parking lot etc.) mean they have an edge over someone fighting off that same attacker who hasn't trained under an an adrenaline-stress response environment.
    This is why full contact sparring is part of the regamen for boxing, MT and a many others. Everything changes when you are put under the stress of the adrenaline dump - those who have trained it are able to deal with it and the situation better. Period.

    This is silly. Get topped by Nigel Ben and you think you won't have permanent damage. Catch Tyson hook to the liver and your gonna walk away let alone take a ****?! Someone who's trained in MMA takes you down - how long does it take to drop an elbow on a windpipe? About a half second. Even shorter for someone who doesn't know how to defend from the guard. Some one takes a swing at MT fighter and you don't think he's going to have an involuntary muscle memory motor response and sink a straight knee right into the guys stomach/nut/inner thigh. The gloms onto him and the MT fighter is somehow going to all of a sudden forget how tie this guy up a clinch and dump him. It happens all the time to guys trained to avoid just that.. other MT fighters..but now all of a sudden joe agressor get's tied up and the MT guy forgets all of that? Wrong.

    The MMA fighter will be far better at keepin' the distance and closing the gap by the simple fact he trains it all day long, puts it into action in fights where he has an opponent who is trying to really hurt him. Not sure when the last time you got caught with a 8oz. glove but I can tell ya - it ain't no tickle. Again what you need to adress is the simple fact of the adrenalins-stress response. Those who train under stress do better under stress.

    LOL. Not sure which MMA you've been watchin' mate but it ain't pattycakes. Plenty of head stompin goin' on. More than a few psychos as well maybe even the odd ex-con.

    The common denominator is between the two (an MMA fight and a street fight) is how the individual being attacked deals with his adrenalin-stress response. If he's trained up dealing with it and all the factors that come with it he stands a far better chance of coming out on top.

    What better training would you consider for doing well in a street fight than MMA, Vale Tudo or the like? And what is it that makes it better?
    :confused:
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2005
  12. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    knightcommander
    I think many guys fighting in full contact bouts in either MMA,Vale Tudo or MT stand a much better chance in a street scrap than someone who hasn't trained under the stress of getting badly hurt, KO'd etc.

    No matter what there are some just plain hard cats out there - that with no training can still just take your block off. And that will always be factor X. But the average guy getting into a scrap on the street with no background in something like boxing,MT, MMA or VT is wide open for getting taken out. He'll often take himself out with fear before the other guy even swings, lunges, kicks - whatever.

    The guy who's been in the ring in the kind of fights I've mentioned above generally will have a better chance of saying "right - it's all in... then lets get down to business if thats the way it's got to go"
     
  13. Richdog

    Richdog Limecat is watching...

    I've made what points I had to make, going round in circles doesn't change my opinion, and I clearly laid it out in my post. You can interpret them and twist them how you like but they are quite straightforward, and as I said it is all my opinion.

    I never once said that MMA would not give you a good if not great chance in a streetfight, but to say that all MMA fighters are automatically great streetfighters isn't always true i'd imagine, just as not all boxers are great streetfighters once the gloves are off and they're out of the relative security of the ring.

    They still fight in a pretty controlled environment, with controlled rules, against people they know are doing the same.

    And that's all I have to say really... that's my opinion, whether you agree or not. :)
     
  14. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    Exactly right!

    Remember though, its how you train. Of course, being in the ring will help you alot, but training for sport is nothing like training for self defence.
     
  15. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Richdog

    Can you point me to spot where I said this?!

    I think you may need a re-read there bro.

    It wasn't said until it showed up in yer post. :eek:
     
  16. Richdog

    Richdog Limecat is watching...

    I didn't say you said it, I used it as an explanation to the point I was trying to make. Nice try though... imitation is the highest form of flattery I suppose... :Angel:
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2005
  17. shinbushi

    shinbushi Reaver

    I have posted this before in different threads but Street vs sportis some good reading.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2005
  18. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    Yes I have read the debate a thousand times, in thousands of threads.
     
  19. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    no don't need to.its plain to see.the guys who fight in the ufc watch there opponents of video tape.and have a plan from there.when they are in as street fight sure they would use some of the tools but not in that way.hey maybe u should get real and do your research.

    are you sure bout that?

    yeah thet train everyday but have a game plan in the ring.bet they would only use couple of tools

    yeah u may do,but same your wrong.but never mind
     

Share This Page