Jiu-Jitsu Is Now the Most Useless Discipline in MMA

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Humblebee, Feb 3, 2015.

  1. Humblebee

    Humblebee PaciFIST's evil twin

    This is a great article.

    ps-I didn't write it.

    The seeds of the modern-day MMA were planted in the Hermosa Beach garage of Rorion Gracie, son of Helio, brother to Royce.

    When he began teaching jiu-jitsu in California's South Bay community, he attracted students that belonged to various karate, tae kwon do and boxing schools. All were fascinated by the exotic grappling-based style.

    The story goes that the instructors of these other schools scoffed at the Gracie style and expressed their skepticism to their students. The result was a series of martial arts instructors, one after another, tapping on Gracie's garage.

    When Royce entered the Octagon, he won fight after fight, establishing Gracie jiu-jitsu as a dominant martial art.

    The sport of MMA owes its existence to Gracie and the art of Brazilian jiu-jitsu, whose techniques like the rear-naked choke still enjoy wide success today. Ironically, in the intervening years, MMA has evolved in ways that diminish the value of the classic jiu-jitsu style.

    The first such change was the introduction of the super fight at UFC 5. Today, all fights are what superfights were in the early days. In those tournament-style days of yore, the best fighters were sure to be exhausted by the time they met for the championship bout. By adhering to the classic jiu-jitsu principle of energy conservation, Royce Gracie did everything he could to ensure that he was the fresher fighter.

    In the first superfight, his old nemesis Ken Shamrock was, like Gracie, rested and fresh, not having fought all night. Royce still won the superfight, but he spent 36 continuous minutes wearing Shamrock down before finishing him, the longest single round of combat in UFC history. This brings me to my second point.

    What is the most valuable style in MMA
    Jiu-Jitsu
    Boxing
    Kickboxing
    Muy Thai
    Wrestling
    Tae Kwon Doe
    SUBMIT VOTE vote to see results
    The limiting of a fight's time and breaking the fights into rounds pulls fighters apart and gives them a break just as a tap is within the jiu-jitsu practitioner's reach. How many times have we seen a fighter locked in an inescapable submission saved by the bell seconds before a tap only to come back after a minute's rest and seize the win?

    Further, the prevalence of the stand up in MMA is antithetical to the spirit of classic jiu-jitsu, which guides its students to slow the pace of the fight, to make the opponent exhaust himself trying to get free and, in the process, create for the savvy jiu-jitsu practitioner the space needed to hit the submission.

    The brilliance is in having your opponent exhaust himself attempting to do exactly what you want. With referees standing up fights whenever the pace slows, this technique is much more difficult to leverage.

    Finally, a new grappling-based art has arisen, which meets the challenges of the rules in MMA. Submission wrestling for MMA incorporates the positional control of wrestling, with ground and pound and submissions for finishing the fight. No longer having the time to wait for an opponent to wear himself down, these fighters pound the strength from their opponents prior to locking up a strangle or lock.

    The effectiveness of classic jiu-jitsu is without question. But with the changes in the rules of the sport it was founded on and the rise of new arts to meet these rules, class jiu-jitsu is being supplanted as the go-to grappling style for MMA fighters.
     
  2. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Crappy article.
     
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Way to strawman 'classical bjj'

    In application you only wait for the opponent to make a mistake if you cant pressure an opponant to make a mistake.

    In training both are valid learning styles.
     
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Bloody "art de jour" articles!
     
  5. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I uhh… I always learned submission grappling in BJJ class. :[

    The distinction between necessary and sufficient seems like an important one to make.

    Edit: Necessary - if not x, then not y.
    Sufficient - if x, then y.

    Where x is knowing jiujitsu and y is beating the tar out of your opponent.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2015
  6. Knoxy

    Knoxy Undisputed and Undefeated

    Wait a minute,I don't remember that happening.

    Regardless fighters have used the techniques they have learnt in jiu-jitsu at the highest levels of MMA, so I don't think it's justifiable to call it useless.
     
  7. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Th self defence BJJ still works perfectly to this day in MMA. MMA guys have only improved on it. Erik Paulson has some excellent stuff on it too, as well as Eddie Bravo. This article is useless.
     
  8. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    This article is entirely based on the Helio Gracie approach to Jiu Jitsu, ignoring the more offensive styles that came from Brazil in the years following to find success.
     
  9. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    That article was a total waste of 1.5 minutes or so. :p
     
  10. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    I wouldn't claim to know much about MMA, but it seems to me that provably the main reason BJJ has lost its claim to being the decisive style in MMA is because it's ubiquitous. Every MMA competitor will have trained in BJJ, so it's no longer the decider - it's the standard. Even the competitors whose main style is stand-up usually hold a belt in BJJ. It's just not the secret weapon any more because everyone does it.
     
  11. FunnyBadger

    FunnyBadger I love food :)

    Totaly Agree with that :) it's not a deciding factor as such unless you don't have it lol

    From what I see you NEED bjj or some other form of submission grappling or you are missing a vital component of a rounded game and probably won't last long.
     
  12. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    The underlined part -- they might instead have high-level wrestling (e.g., NCAA national champion, Olympic competitor). Josh Koschek, Jon Jones, and Matt Hughes come to mind. But whatever, I share the essential point that high-level grappling is a required skill for the sport, and because it's required BJJ is no longer decisive.
     
  13. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Sure, but I think Miesha Tate demonstrated at the weekend that wrestling isn't a sufficient substitute for BJJ. She managed to dominate a vastly superior wrestler on the ground because her BJJ was better.
     
  14. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    One of those guys submitted Vitor, the other submitted GSP.... You could have said Chael :p
     
  15. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    heres two points to consider

    1) Wrestling without submission awareness / defence is not a good replacement for BJJ, (see how early wrestlers controled the takedown but still got submitted)

    2) If your submisison grappling / groundwork includes submissions, passes, a guard etc then Its just BJJ by another name, (well you get what I mean)

    In application, you need striking, clinch work and groundwork, any missing skills in this area can and will be used against you.

    It used to be that BJJ was the rate limiting factor for success in MMA, now that everyone at that level has BJJ skills, that rate limiting factor can be other things, MMA isnt one dimensional anymore.
     
  16. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    it's almost as if the author has never heard of carlson gracie.
     
  17. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Ya, there are a bunch of great wrestlers in the UFC right now. :) Johny Hendricks is another. Low-level BJJ rank, granted, but it's his wrestling background that shines. I love watching him fight.


    Naw, I'd argue that her BJJ was better than that opponent's wrestling, not that wrestling itself is weak. When a muay thai boxer beats a boxer with leg kicks (I'm thinking UFC from last August) we don't say punching sucks. We say that kicker knows how to control distance.

    I'm with Fusen: if your wrestling includes submissions, it is functionally the same as BJJ.
     
  18. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Sorry, I wasn't clear, I don't think wrestling sucks - in fact, I think it's probably the most important aspect of a fighter's repertoire at the moment in high level MMA, but I think the Tate fight showed that whilst a world class wrestling background will get your opponent on the ground, but you need a strong BJJ game to keep them there or to get off your back.
     
  19. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Wrestlers are insanely good at pinning, but the whole point in BJJ is to escape pins and control the bottom position.
     
  20. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Well ... yes and no. You need submission skills -- no question about it. I've seen too many UFC fights where one fighter got the top position and then did nothing at all. But I disagree about needing BJJ specifically. Example: Matt Hughes. He has no BJJ rank and no formal BJJ instruction, but he repeatedly beat BJJ black-belts (including Royce Gracie and BJ Penn). I think everyone in the world would say Hughes fought at a BJJ-black-belt level, but the point is that he's a wrestler, not a BJJ practitioner, who trained in submissions.

    Like Fusen said, if your wrestling includes submissions, it is functionally the same as BJJ.
    But still in my mind, it's not BJJ. It's wrestling. Karate isn't taekwondo, either, even though they both have side kicks and reverse punches. :dunno:
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2015

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