You stated: This is a bit of a red rag to any competitive judoka and was always going to provoke a reaction. I have personally found the grappling / throwing aspects of most gendai jujitsu systems to be flawed. By way of personal experience I have fought dan grades from many styles under sport jujitsu formats. These include Jikishin Jujitsu, Goshin Kempo Jujitsu, Jitsu Foundation, Seishin Mizu Ryu Jujitsu, Bushido Jujitsu, Park Lodge Jujitsu, Warrior MA Jujitsu, MAAS. I feel uncomfortable saying this (as I know my own true level), but in every sports jujitsu match that I have EVER fought I have thrown my opponent in less than 10 seconds. In most cases I have then submitted them with armlocks or chokes. I am not an elite level judoka. In my opinion the way grappling is taught in most gendai jujitsu styles is flawed. They tend to teach throws and locks against different punches and grabs. What they rarely do is teach the throws and the principles behind them then allow the student to build up their ability against increasing levels of resistance. Being balanced Judo is not the be all and end all. The total focus on sporting aspects does leave practitioners a bit exposed to striking. However, how to correctly apply judo to self defence and combat situations can be taught fairly quickly. The Jikishin jujitsu taught in the UK is a modern British mix up of judo, aikido and karate. It is definitely not a grandfather art, more a younger relation.
Yes, in that any of the koryu jujutsu being taught today cames much much earlier then the WJJF flavoured pap that people think is jujutsu.
However Koryu arts are uncommon in the west, and are somewhat anachronistic. They contain useful techniques, but are often extremely formal and many of the setups would only be applicable today if you were attacked in a Japanese restaurant.
There is nothing wrong with the Jikishin Syllabus Fusen, the WJJF may well have their bad history regarding certain people's money making schemes, but I've never heard anything bad about their syllabus - and having studied a good chunk of the Jikishin Syllabus I can assure you the content is solid.
I have substantial experience of self defence situations. For vast you'd need to talk to Hannibal or Kuma, but I'm sure they'd agree. I have cranked wristlocks fully on and the only thing I ever broke was someone's watch. Because of the nature of the technique the other person will fall long before the wrist breaks (if it ever would). I don't see that you could do the technique explosively enough to break it before they fall. With the supinating wristlock in question you can transition to a standing ude garami and dislocate the elbow, but it's not especially secure and needs to be done very dynamically (what's known as low percentage). I suppose in theory one of the big torquing wristlock/throw setups MIGHT do it, but the same issues apply. I very much doubt your sensei has ever broken anyone's wrist in a street fight, so he's just repeating what he's been taught. This comes back to what Hannibal was saying about too much theory and not enough pressure testing. I would also say that breaking the wrist of someone who's grabbed you will cause you a lot of legal headaches.
No they aren't designed for today but at the same time they do transmit useful methods, strategies, movement and a whole host of other things that are certainly transferable. As for formality I've found they can be more relaxed than some gendai systems. The emphasis is heavily on the practioner though if they wish to adapt their training.
How about a gooseneck type wrist lock Ben? I got them a couple of times in BJJ rolling (opportunistically while trying to apply an armbar) and always felt I could have really cranked them on way beyond what got the tap. Maybe not to a wrist break but perhaps ligament and joint damage?
Wrists are quite hard to break - I havent done it "live" yet. Typically unless they are already half insensible the locks don't go on too smoothly...and it doesn't take much to wriggle out of them, especially if adrenalized. I use them only after I have control through a more significant means Arms on the other hand I have broken 4 of....using what would are effectively CACC techniques
The only thing "wrong" is if people are being misled about what it is they really are learning. Then they can put anything they like in their syllabus. Nunchaku, sai and all. :evil:
On the floor it's a little different because you can generate more torque and keep them pinned. The area of stress is the carpal bones though, which are small and slightly mobile, so I'm not sure if they would break anyway.
Its a modern Jujitsu syllabus, it doesn't claim to be 'traditional' nor a 'koryu' system, thats all there is to it. Weapons training doesn't hurt anyone. And I can personally attest to the effectiveness of the techniques in a self defense situation as well.
Weapons training can hurt if those teaching are clueless. Not saying your teachers are just that it's not something to be brushed over.
I won't make any claims for the WJJF, but Jikishin Jujitsu doesn't claim to be a traditional style, it quite clearly says its a modern style of jujitsu. And We've had the weapons chat before Dean =)
Fair enough but honestly "what" does that mean? Your organization's website http://www.jikishin.com/intro.htm says that "Ju-Jitsu was originally the Japanese Martial Art". The Imperial Jikishin Ju-Jitsu Club says it is "a friendly place to learn the Japanese martial art of ju-jitsu". Well what specific Japanese martial art(s) are they referring too?
